View Full Version : Spirited Children
I have a 4 year old that is very spirited and knows how to push my buttons. Her father and I split up a little over a year ago and just recently she has learned how to play us. Her father refuses to believe we can do anything about it...and thinks it is my problem to deal with.
She refuses to go to bed at night, she screams at the top of her lungs at me...does anyone have any suggestions???? I am going crazy and need help!
Charmed
12-09-2008, 09:53 PM
OMG I would so love to tell you but, it would cause a huge debate on parenting....
Please go on I have tried everything for disciple and it isn't working at the moment!
It's almost 10 pm and my 5 year old is still up there.. i can't help you at all. But if you get anything that works, please pm me.
I have been trying the Nanny 911 thing and last night it worked!
eagle100
12-09-2008, 10:02 PM
As I type this, I am arguing with my 6 year old about going to sleep, so my advice is basically useless.
But I hope you and your husband can find a way to work as a team. That might make life easier for you.
I would love to work as a team with him but he gets defensive when I talk to him about it...I hope one day he sees it as we have to be a team to raise a daughter that isn't disrespectful.
eagle100
12-09-2008, 10:09 PM
I hope so as well. You have a very difficult situation, as you know. But you do have friends here who will help and support you as much as possible.
ALL kids are different so what works for one will NOT work for another!!!
I've found that if you make it COST them something then they tend to not find it so fun. For example everytime she throws a fit at bedtime one of her toys has to go into a time-out box, or she loses 30 min. of tv time the next day etc. The trick is finding out the thing that "costs" them TOO much so they'll modify their behavior!!!!
Good LUCK!!!
Tndream
12-09-2008, 10:27 PM
Well hon, as a single mom of 4, I totally understand and empathize where your coming from.
I realized a long time ago that routine and consistancy are king.
This may heat up a debate, but...
I give my children no leeway whatsoever.
When it is bedtime, it is bedtime, point blank period.
They know there is no playing around, no stalling, nothing.
8 PM means bedtime, end of story.
Yeah I probably run my house wih an iron fist, but when you are a single parent, that is the way it has to be.
I am not saying the kids can't have any fun, and I am not saying you can't enjoy her childhood, but you basiclly have to put your foot down and say this is the way it is, point blank period.
You and your ex both have to agree on how to do this,
once you establish a routine at home, make sure he knows it too and sticks to the same routine.
If he doesn't then she won't be allowed to visit again, or the visits will be at your house until her bedtime, then he can leave.
Thats the way it works at my house.
But thats just my $0.02
Frenchie_lady
12-09-2008, 10:28 PM
ALL kids are different so what works for one will NOT work for another!!!
I've found that if you make it COST them something then they tend to not find it so fun. For example everytime she throws a fit at bedtime one of her toys has to go into a time-out box, or she loses 30 min. of tv time the next day etc. The trick is finding out the thing that "costs" them TOO much so they'll modify their behavior!!!!
Good LUCK!!!
I call this: consequences. That's what I do with my 7 years old. She has gone for weeks without tv. Key is, hold up to your word or she will walk all over you!
I call this: consequences. That's what I do with my 7 years old. She has gone for weeks without tv. Key is, hold up to your word or she will walk all over you!
OH exactly!!!!!
And it'll probably get WORSE before it gets better.
They have to test you to see if you're REALLY serious!!! we once took every single thing except the bed out of my daughters room and she had to earn them back. LOL
He has really no rules but she knows when she is in trouble....but he has no set routine which makes it hard here for me. She naps if she wants and goes to bed when she wants there. That is the hard part of being a single mom having the same routine in the different houses! I am not going to debate with anyone just want different advice! Everyone has different ways of parenting thats why i came here!
Frenchie_lady
12-09-2008, 10:36 PM
OH exactly!!!!!
And it'll probably get WORSE before it gets better.
They have to test you to see if you're REALLY serious!!! we once took every single thing except the bed out of my daughters room and she had to earn them back. LOL
OMG... you must have a very big room! Not sure i would have space for it somewhere else!
We did thought of having a "to give" box... whenever i need a consequence, i would put a toy in it and it could not be earned back. I even thought (yeah yeah evil me) that she would be the one giving it away (the counter or the drop off place for charity). But she's been really good lately, so not in effect just yet!
OMG... you must have a very big room! Not sure i would have space for it somewhere else!
We did thought of having a "to give" box... whenever i need a consequence, i would put a toy in it and it could not be earned back. I even thought (yeah yeah evil me) that she would be the one giving it away (the counter or the drop off place for charity). But she's been really good lately, so not in effect just yet!
LOL........oh man. I had garbage bags out the whazzo in my garage for MONTHS.......I paid just as dearly as she did I think!!!! But she DID learn when I said to pick up her room I meant PICK UP HER ROOM!!!!
He has really no rules but she knows when she is in trouble....but he has no set routine which makes it hard here for me. She naps if she wants and goes to bed when she wants there. That is the hard part of being a single mom having the same routine in the different houses! I am not going to debate with anyone just want different advice! Everyone has different ways of parenting thats why i came here!
I don't envy you your situation!!! It's hard enough WITH consistancy!!!
OH exactly!!!!!
And it'll probably get WORSE before it gets better.
They have to test you to see if you're REALLY serious!!! we once took every single thing except the bed out of my daughters room and she had to earn them back. LOL
I will have to try that...I have heard of it but never tried it! Thank-you
WandaRing
12-09-2008, 11:27 PM
Well hon, as a single mom of 4, I totally understand and empathize where your coming from.
I realized a long time ago that routine and consistancy are king.
This may heat up a debate, but...
I give my children no leeway whatsoever.
When it is bedtime, it is bedtime, point blank period.
They know there is no playing around, no stalling, nothing.
8 PM means bedtime, end of story.
Yeah I probably run my house wih an iron fist, but when you are a single parent, that is the way it has to be.
I am not saying the kids can't have any fun, and I am not saying you can't enjoy her childhood, but you basiclly have to put your foot down and say this is the way it is, point blank period.
You and your ex both have to agree on how to do this,
once you establish a routine at home, make sure he knows it too and sticks to the same routine.
If he doesn't then she won't be allowed to visit again, or the visits will be at your house until her bedtime, then he can leave.
Thats the way it works at my house.
But thats just my $0.02
:wy Tin, you sound like a parent in control...it's not easy and children always know how to play us....:wy
Joy let her scream, cry and yell all she wants...right now she knows if she does it enough you'll give in....best of luck....and if you have neighbours warn then ahead of time and explain to them that you're having bed time battles...they'll understand.
My nephew tried pulling temper tantrums when he was 2, we were in a store and he wanted a toy...I said no and he proceeded to cry and scream at the top of his lungs saying that he wanted it.....I looked at him and at the top of my lungs in whiny voice I yelled..."I want a car, and lots of money right now!" He stopped and looked at me, then looked at all the people who had stopped to watch us...I saw his face go very red...and I said "yes, now we both look like idiots for taking temper tantrums and everyone is looking at us." He quietly came to my side an buried his face into my leg and never did it again.
Thank-you Annie I needed a laugh! I walk out of the store when she throws a fit there!
Agent
12-09-2008, 11:32 PM
My son at 4 did stuff like that. He loves trains. I took everyone and told him I threw them away. In a week he was a different kid. He got them back and the the idea that I would do it again lasted a long time. Now at 7 I tell him I will ditch his PC. lol
WandaRing
12-09-2008, 11:37 PM
Thank-you Annie I needed a laugh! I walk out of the store when she throws a fit there!
you go through days when you cant believe how sweet and smart they are..you're amazed at the person that they are becoming.....
then there are those days when you have to ask yourself...WTF was I thinking
Bud don't worry, pay back comes when they grow up and you tell their friends, spouse, and children what they did to drive you nuts...:crs
Lacey
12-09-2008, 11:45 PM
OH exactly!!!!!
And it'll probably get WORSE before it gets better.
They have to test you to see if you're REALLY serious!!! we once took every single thing except the bed out of my daughters room and she had to earn them back. LOL
LOL...I've done it! This is a great tool. Now as she is older into teenage years..I take clothes away too! LOL
Kissie
12-10-2008, 09:22 AM
Joy...I so wish you luck with you child!!! I cant help you...many years ago I had a child out of control...he bit my tit and gave me 8 stiched...and I couldnt get him off me...I finally had enough...and slapped him...sent him to school that day...and he told his teacher that I had slapped him....and they took all 3 of my kids away....took me 11 days to get the other 2 back...but he spent from the time he was 8 till he turned 18 in foster care....never really got him under control...he is 25 now....and still acts like a freaking fool!!!!!
Back then I never knew what to do...I asked many places for help....and never got anything but a pat on the back.....telling me what a great job I was doing.....
Now remember this is the worst case....I hope something works for you soon!!!!!
jmsmith12345
12-10-2008, 09:37 AM
Kids are like dogs in the fact that they need structure and hierarchy. If they sense weakness in either, they will do their best to be "top dog". Let them know who is in charge, and always be firm, consistent, and fair in both praise and rebuke. If that doesn't work, try duct tape. :D
MrHyde
12-10-2008, 09:41 AM
Post parroting as usual: be consistent, have consequences, pick consequences you can enforce i.e. you will go to your room at 7:00PM versus you will be asleep by 7:00PM (can you really force someone to sleep?). Also, even if you ex doesn't follow suit, she will come to learn that when she's at your house she has limits and boundaries, and she'll thank you for it later. One other thing to keep in mind, you just split up and this may be emotionally upsetting, so ensure she gets plenty of attention when she is being good. Sometimes kids need extra special connecting time when they are scared and alone like at bedtime. Good luck!
fever
12-10-2008, 10:18 AM
Well, I can totally relate to this...I have a still-spirited 10 year old and we still have moments of this. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like her father is going to be much help. While it would be nice if he would help by acting like an adult, kids CAN learn that there are different rules with each adult in their life. Hopefully once he sees that she does well with you he'll start to incorporate the same routine!!!
For now all you can control is your home, if you're lucky. I agree that you have to figure out what motivates you child, and I can tell you that all the sticker charts, reward earning, toy removals and time outs on the planet wouldn't work for my kid. There is ONLY one thing that does...and that's removing myself physically and/or emotionally when he misbehaves. Even today when he raises his voice or puts on an attitude I remind him that I do not tolerate that, and tell him he is dismissed to his room until he can pull it together.
When he was younger, it meant sitting with him but not allowing me to touch me until he could find a nice voice and a nice touch. (Time outs, btw, took place in the bathroom, not the bedroom. Too many things to enjoy while he was in there alone.) Occasionally it meant that I couldn't be in the room with him until he quieted down.
I have found none of this easy, but it has gotten MUCH better. I also find that no sooner do I "let up" than he slips, too...he needs to be able to count on me to be consistent. GOOD LUCK!!!
sweet
12-10-2008, 10:50 AM
You've gotten some great advice here. All I can do is say again that being consistent is the key. It's important to set up rules and stick to them. She'll soon realize that you mean business and you won't let her get away with this bad behavior. Taking away special things they enjoy doing really works for my girls. My girls get an allowance every week, and if they misbehave then they get some money taken away from their allowance.
Given your situation, I can see how difficult it must be for you. It's tough when one parent doesn't set any boundaries, then you feel like you have to be the bad guy. But don't feel that way. A child needs structure in order to grow up and be a responsible adult. Hopefully you'll be able to find something that will work and you will be able to enjoy the time she's there with you more.
Catman354
12-10-2008, 03:47 PM
My oldest son was like that Joy, heres how I dealt with it. I sat him down in front of the fire place and let him sit there and told him that he wasn't allowed to go to bed. I told him that he HAD to stay up AND he had to sit right there where I told him to sit. He lasted all of about 10 minutes and I didn't have that problem again. :)
Kids are like dogs in the fact that they need structure and hierarchy. If they sense weakness in either, they will do their best to be "top dog". Let them know who is in charge, and always be firm, consistent, and fair in both praise and rebuke. If that doesn't work, try duct tape. :D
OH I love the duct tape method!!!!:ok
learman3
12-10-2008, 04:03 PM
We always set limits and boundaries for our kids. You need to be firm with those boundaries and if you say something you must follow through with it. Do not ever say something that you'd never do, because once the push and you don't follow through they will just push on further. Once they know they can't get away with pushing the boundaries you have control. If they scream let them, as long as they are in bed. Take things away that they enjoy. One of my sons it was video games, while the other was candy. There is always that one thing that is precious to them that they will behave for. Find it and that can be what you use to take away if they do not behave.
Thank-you Fever.....Spirited children are a different kind of child and discipline is hard to find what works for them. I have been sitting her against a wal and not allowing talking, but I have to sit with her because she has a problem sitting still.
The other day she refused to do her testing on colors, shapes and counting with the teacher! I made her do it at home 3 times a day for a week...she just came to me and started doing it. She has the idea that she will make her own decisions....unfortunately that is scary in preschool!
Thank-you so much for all of the advice!
Denny422
12-10-2008, 07:36 PM
Thank-you Annie I needed a laugh! I walk out of the store when she throws a fit there!
Joy, I'd advise really strongly against letting her get away with things in public. If they figure out you're afraid to discipline them in public, they'll go hog wild!
I'm of the "iron fist" mindset as well. My favorite saying for times like this was "you want to put on a show? I can help...". And yes, it can be pretty embarassing to spank a child in the middle of a store, at church, at a family gathering, etc. But I can tell you from experience if you do it once, they're VERY unlikely to make you do it again. Another tactic is to make them hold your hand if they can't behave on their own. Mine HATED that! Our friends all talked about the fact that when our kids started to get out of control we could "flag them down" from across the room with the raise of an eyebrow. I can tell you it took a LOT of work and definite consistency.
The taking things away strategy worked well, as did moving up bedtime by 5 or 10 minute increments when they didn't go to bed peacefully.
And like some already said, don't worry about having different rules from dad's house. She WILL come to respect you more for it in the future. She may chage against the restrictions, but I can tell you from work with troubled teens and from my foster siblings experiences, I never saw a child grow up with that dual environment that didnt' have more respect for the strict parent.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
Denny I will not spank my child in a public place due to all the DHS stuff that happens! People do call DHS for parents spanking there child. I don't embarrass easy but i am not staying in a store as long as she continues to throw a fit because she wants something! I would be willing to try what Annie did!
Denny422
12-10-2008, 10:12 PM
Yeah, that is a valid concern these days. My kids are grown now, so my frame of reference is a little dated I guess. The hand holding thing worked well for me, but Annie's always full of wisdom. I got a kick out of that too. I don't think I could do that one!
fever
12-10-2008, 10:17 PM
Thank-you Fever.....Spirited children are a different kind of child and discipline is hard to find what works for them. I have been sitting her against a wal and not allowing talking, but I have to sit with her because she has a problem sitting still.
The other day she refused to do her testing on colors, shapes and counting with the teacher! I made her do it at home 3 times a day for a week...she just came to me and started doing it. She has the idea that she will make her own decisions....unfortunately that is scary in preschool!
Thank-you so much for all of the advice!
Oh, sweetie...it ain't nothing in kindergarten...wait 'til she hits 3rd grade!! Here's the thing, though. YOU need to never forget how delicious she is, even, maybe especially, when her teachers can't see it. My son came home on day last November and asked if he could have a break before he did his homework. I said yes, and he went to his room. I went in 10 minutes later and he was writing his Presidential platform for the 2040 elections. The qualities they have now are those most valued down the road...just keep your eye on the ball (red wine at the end of the day is good, too!!!!).
MrHyde
12-10-2008, 10:21 PM
Denny I will not spank my child in a public place due to all the DHS stuff that happens! People do call DHS for parents spanking there child. I don't embarrass easy but i am not staying in a store as long as she continues to throw a fit because she wants something! I would be willing to try what Annie did!
I work for the Department of Social Services. In my state it is not considered physical abuse unless you leave a bruise or mark...so spanking is legal...but is it really worth the risk.
Denny422
12-10-2008, 10:30 PM
Thanks, Hyde. I always appreciate your expertise. I've always know that was the case here as well, but like you say, is it worth the risk? A report could definitely earn you a visit from the friendly folks at Child Services, and then they get to poke around a bit at your house. No thanks!
I work for the Department of Social Services. In my state it is not considered physical abuse unless you leave a bruise or mark...so spanking is legal...but is it really worth the risk.
Yes Hyde it is not illegal to spank as long as no bruises are made but people like to call DHS. Then you obviously have to go out and check out the situation! I am just not disciplining in that way in public!
I love hearing your input Fever would love to have a discussion in yahoo or something!
fever
12-10-2008, 10:46 PM
I love hearing your input Fever would love to have a discussion in yahoo or something!
Would be happy to! I'll try to be in chat in a bit to exchange info!!
Would be happy to! I'll try to be in chat in a bit to exchange info!!
sounds good...I wasn't going to go in there but I will now!
Midwest girl
12-11-2008, 12:08 PM
I am Joy's best friend and I know her daughter. I have heard it so many times and know Joys frustration. I encouraged her to post because of the wonderful people here can be an untapped resource for her parenting issues. I only know so much to help her and I am a strict mother with my boys but I have a great partner to help me. Her daughter is a wonderful ad beautiful child and I know any advice she gets, will help her daughter in the long run. It is wonderful now when Joy calls me and is finally feeling better about trying to figure this parenting thing out, instead of crying when shes at her wits end. Joy i love you and your little mirror image as well. Im glad you could connect and reach out for help!!
WandaRing
12-11-2008, 05:19 PM
:sc Lately I have been noticing more and more that the kids that are a handful or have behaviour problems before they are around 11 yrs of age, turn out to be the good teenagers...and the teens who were easy to handle as kids...can become big problems in the teen and early adult years...Not always the case but I'm just putting it out there....:crs
Thank-you Midwest girl you know I love you too....and you always listen when i am upset and at my witts end!
:sc Lately I have been noticing more and more that the kids that are a handful or have behaviour problems before they are around 11 yrs of age, turn out to be the good teenagers...and the teens who were easy to handle as kids...can become big problems in the teen and early adult years...Not always the case but I'm just putting it out there....:crs
That would be great if it turned out that way.....
sandycrotch
12-12-2008, 08:12 PM
My oldest went through a stage like this for about 6 weeks when she was about 3 1/2. She would yell and scream and not want to go to bed. After severing her vocal chords... No I didn't do that. It seems like she just kinda grew out of it. but I was pretty lucky, my kids were rarely violent about their rebellion.
Sandy she has always been this way and always will be.....she is spirited!
Agent
12-13-2008, 07:30 AM
Talking things away...never giving in ad not letting others...friends, grandma or whoever comfort them when they are to being punished.
Hey Fever you have given me great advice and everything is going better....still acting up some....but doing much better! Thank-you so very much! Talk to you soon about it!
Talking things away...never giving in ad not letting others...friends, grandma or whoever comfort them when they are to being punished.
That is something my family never does....she tries but my parents and siblings never interfere with discipline!
Lacey
12-21-2008, 12:20 PM
:sc Lately I have been noticing more and more that the kids that are a handful or have behaviour problems before they are around 11 yrs of age, turn out to be the good teenagers...and the teens who were easy to handle as kids...can become big problems in the teen and early adult years...Not always the case but I'm just putting it out there....:crs
I have one that started out a handful and 17 years later she still is...she's just a lot smarter now!
Agent
12-21-2008, 01:06 PM
That is something my family never does....she tries but my parents and siblings never interfere with discipline!
You are blessed then. This can really be an issue. It is hard to be hard with the little ones is it not? :)
You are blessed then. This can really be an issue. It is hard to be hard with the little ones is it not? :)
It is very hard....but a parent has to do what a parent has to do! And I am doing everything I can!
Agent
12-21-2008, 05:27 PM
It is very hard....but a parent has to do what a parent has to do! And I am doing everything I can!
You are right...tough love and all of that. But in the end it is what needs to be done. I can only offer you advice or support, but please count me as a friend. :)
You are right...tough love and all of that. But in the end it is what needs to be done. I can only offer you advice or support, but please count me as a friend. :)
Thank-you for all the advice and support! I do count on you as a friend!:))):
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