The "F" Word

[Sneaky]

Nooooo! Not THAT one!!!:crs

And *NOT* Fisting!:nu


The F word I'm asking about is:
FEMINISM.


Men: When a woman tells you she's a feminist what are your first thoughts? Positive or negative?


Women: Do you consider yourself a feminist? Why or why not?

[sandycrotch]

First thoughts are negative. Oh great, a man hater! And I picture someone in a mumu and "comfortable" sandals, who is prematurely gray.

[OICurready4me]

To me a woman coming out and saying she's a feminist would be the same as a man coming out and saying he is a chauvinist. Do you think those descriptions are appealing? I think not.

I would roll my eyes and move on.

[redcat]

First thoughts are negative. Oh great, a man hater! And I picture someone in a mumu and "comfortable" sandals, who is prematurely gray.


Hey!!! I told you to stop peeking in my windows (just knock on the door, lol). Although I DO NOT hate men!!


No Sneaky, I don't consider myself a feminist. I'm not even sure I know the definition of one. But, I do think a woman is capable of doing almost any job and if she is qualified to do a job, no matter what it is, she should be paid equally. Her gender should not prevent her from advancement in her career, and she should be allowed to make decisions that affect her life; she is not her husband's property.

Does that make me a feminist? :ok

[sandycrotch]

Hey!!! I told you to stop peeking in my windows (just knock on the door, lol). Although I DO NOT hate men!!


No Sneaky, I don't consider myself a feminist. I'm not even sure I know the definition of one. But, I do think a woman is capable of doing almost any job and if she is qualified to do a job, no matter what it is, she should be paid equally. Her gender should not prevent her from advancement in her career, and she should be allowed to make decisions that affect her life; she is not her husband's property.

Does that make me a feminist? :ok

Of course not Red, and besides, you are MY property!

[Sneaky]

First thoughts are negative. Oh great, a man hater! And I picture someone in a mumu and "comfortable" sandals, who is prematurely gray.
Interesting.....

[sandycrotch]

Interesting.....

Hey it's just what comes to mind. I don't really believe in "feminism" "masculism" to paraphrase Ferris Bueller, I don;t believe in any kind of "ism". Why do we need feminists? I think women are men's equals in almost every realm. Aside from a few physical things, women can do pretty much whatever a man can do and I don't see a need to differentiate in amost every area. There are some areas however where I do believe that if women are going to do the job, they should be able to perform the same physical requirements as a man and the standards should not be lowered. Examples, Law Enforcement, Firefighting, Military service. Other than that, I pretty much really like women and have no problem with them holding any position, office or status in our society.

[Sneaky]

To me a woman coming out and saying she's a feminist would be the same as a man coming out and saying he is a chauvinist. Do you think those descriptions are appealing? I think not.

I would roll my eyes and move on.

To me a chauvinist (male typically, there are lots of female "man hating" ones as well) is someone that has issues with the opposite sex. I think the "bra burning" feminists of the 70's may have contributed o that stereotype. It's important to remember that things were very different when those women were the spokes people for woman at the time. They brought a lot of women's issues to the spot light and paved the way for lots of changes. Now (in my opinion) women can be feminine, ambitious (if they choose to be), mothers, wives, or whatever they want.....

I consider myself a feminist and I don't consider myself a man hater at all. I know the word evokes a lot of emotion and that's why I posed the question.

[Sneaky]

Hey!!! I told you to stop peeking in my windows (just knock on the door, lol). Although I DO NOT hate men!!


No Sneaky, I don't consider myself a feminist. I'm not even sure I know the definition of one. But, I do think a woman is capable of doing almost any job and if she is qualified to do a job, no matter what it is, she should be paid equally. Her gender should not prevent her from advancement in her career, and she should be allowed to make decisions that affect her life; she is not her husband's property.

Does that make me a feminist? :ok

I don't hate men either. I love one that's running around here in black pants, a vest & a blaster pistol in fact and he's pretty outspoken and has his own mind to say the least! LOL.

By my definition, Red, I consider you a feminist. I think everyone's definition is different which is why I was curious about people thoughts.

PS--I love your skirt!

[jmsmith12345]

Feminism has taken on an ugly badge because those who choose to trumpet it are not actually feminine. Somewhere along the line, being feminine became negative to some women, and we men were too damned scared to stand up to the movement and still appreciate our women for being women...yet allowing them to be themselves. Personally, I hate the term feminism. To me it implies that women needed validation to be women. But, I hate all "isms" due to the same slants that lead us to needing an "ism" in the first place. To sum up my little rant, I celebrate the woman, not the "ism" and if a feminist disagrees, I have some lighter fluid to help you burn your bra.

[Sneaky]

Hey it's just what comes to mind. I don't really believe in "feminism" "masculism" to paraphrase Ferris Bueller, I don;t believe in any kind of "ism". Why do we need feminists? I think women are men's equals in almost every realm. Aside from a few physical things, women can do pretty much whatever a man can do and I don't see a need to differentiate in amost every area. There are some areas however where I do believe that if women are going to do the job, they should be able to perform the same physical requirements as a man and the standards should not be lowered. Examples, Law Enforcement, Firefighting, Military service. Other than that, I pretty much really like women and have no problem with them holding any position, office or status in our society.

Well, by my definition, you sound like a Feminist Sandy. (Men can be feminists too! LOL):ok

[Sneaky]

Feminism has taken on an ugly badge because those who choose to trumpet it are not actually feminine. Somewhere along the line, being feminine became negative to some women, and we men were too damned scared to stand up to the movement and still appreciate our women for being women...yet allowing them to be themselves. Personally, I hate the term feminism. To me it implies that women needed validation to be women. But, I hate all "isms" due to the same slants that lead us to needing an "ism" in the first place. To sum up my little rant, I celebrate the woman, not the "ism" and if a feminist disagrees, I have some lighter fluid to help you burn your bra.
LOL! Mine are too cute & I pay too much for them to burn them!!!

I used to have a pin on my jacket in my 20's the I wore that said:
"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people".

[jmsmith12345]

LOL! Mine are too cute & I pay too much for them to burn them!!!

I used to have a pin on my jacket in my 20's the I wore that said:
"Feminism is the radical notion that women are people".



You are people??? no wonder we men don't take you seriously. You "people" are schizo!!! with great booty, but still schizo.

[Sneaky]

You are people??? no wonder we men don't take you seriously. You "people" are schizo!!! with great booty, but still schizo.
:rolleyes:Great schizo booty?? Well at least the bra burning wasn't in vain. LOL.

[jmsmith12345]

:rolleyes:Great schizo booty?? Well at least the bra burning wasn't in vain. LOL.

Are the bras stripey too?

[Midwest girl]

feminism : A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/female) must be removed in order to bring about such equality (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/equality).

feminist : A person who supports the equality of women with men. A member of a feminist political movement. One who believes in the social, political, and economical equality of the sexes

feminine : Having the qualities associated with a woman or the female gender (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gender); suitable to, or characteristic of, a woman; nurturing (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nurturing); not masculine (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/masculine) or aggressive (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aggressive)

I beleive in the first one. I have to, its my responsibility as a woman and mother.
I am the second as I previously stated.
I am also the third and proud of it.

I try not to get on a soap box about it, but in my profession I deal with all types of stereotypes. Its hard to beleive in this day and age that in some places, woman are still viewed as the "lesser" gender, no matter the miracles that can be performed by their bodies only.

I agree that a man or woman can be a chauvinist, and in every group there is the extreme member and/or group that grabs the spotlight and gives the whole movement a bad rap. I feel its my responsibility to know my rights as a woman and to make sure they are respected. But I also know my place as a mother, in raising boys to understand that women are their equals, and are to be treated as such....:spbx:

[Han Solo]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#ff8c00]Men: When a woman tells you she's a feminist what are your first thoughts? Positive or negative?


Women: Do you consider yourself a feminist? Why or why not?


Do you REALLY wanna touch off THIS powderkeg on a SATURDAY?? Remember, I still have my Pass till Sunday:D

OK, but seriously....Midwest, thanks for posting the literal interpretation. Since I do believe in the equality of men and women, I suppose by the definition above that makes me a feminist (I refuse however to wear the silky underthingy's). In my practical experience I have to admit that the first feeling that jumps to mind when someone states they are a feminist is negative. My particular experience is that those women tend to be more hypersensitive to equality issues that they end up showing everyone a little chip on their shoulder that comes across negatively. In other words, talk to me and treat me like I treat you. If Bob down the hall assumes that because you are a woman that you are to fetch his coffee, then go explain to him where he can stick his coffee the next time he asks. But don't allow those feelings to project into generalities about "man" vs. "woman"...I personally hate generalities when trying to make a case for things like that.

So I suppose by definition I've learned that loads more people than I might think qualify as feminists. But in my experience the women who actually go out of their way to say or try to PROVE they are feminists just tend to project it in a negative way. I suppose I look at this this way. If you feel that things are unequal then spend your day SHOWING everyone in the way that you perform why you should be treated equally, not spending it explaining how someone has passed judgement on you and held you back.

Yes, possibly easier said than done speaking as a man's point of view......I've worked WITH and FOR women in my career and the one thing has always been true in my experience...the women who perform earn the respect of their peers and subordinates and are the ones chosen for the promotions. That's been my experience anyway so I don't really tend to look at things as man or woman, it's more about do you do your job or not.

[Charmed]

Yoooooooooooooooooo Is the the FU thread ?

[Charmed]

I Need Beer

[Charmed]

Hey Sneaky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't wanna work, I just wanna look sexy all day..... What do you think about that! HA!

[Nice]

I feel the need for speed!

[Charmed]

Damn! niceones.........Sexy bitch!

[Charmed]

What is FEMINISM??????

Someone need a minipad?

[Nice]

Is that a wipe of some sort?

What is FEMINISM??????

Someone need a minipad?

[Charmed]

LMAO.....

I dunno we don't have FEMINISM in Po Dunk!

[OnceAKing]

My first thought ~ Feminazi... and my first reaction negative... thanks in no small part to comedian Rush Limbaugh. If there was ever anything that would turn a female towards anti-republicansim it seems to me like it would be him and his narcoticly induced ridiculous rhetoric...Since he seems to be the party's lead spokesman and charactor assination specialist for the last too many years.

Thanks Sneaky, I've been needing to get that posion out of my system.

[OU812]

FEMINIST? Kinda like a female prick right?

[redcat]

No..I'm not a feminist....all the hausfraus in my burg look like this.

[Sneaky]

Do you REALLY wanna touch off THIS powderkeg on a SATURDAY?? Remember, I still have my Pass till Sunday:D.
I told you those were not redeamable on Saturdays. LOL.
OK, but seriously....Midwest, thanks for posting the literal interpretation. Since I do believe in the equality of men and women, I suppose by the definition above that makes me a feminist .
......and since I believe in the force I believe that you YOU are sexy!
(I refuse however to wear the silky underthingy's).
What if I have a special request????
If Bob down the hall assumes that because you are a woman that you are to fetch his coffee, then go explain to him where he can stick his coffee the next time he asks.
Agreed!

[Sneaky]

What is FEMINISM??????

Someone need a minipad?
LOL! It's not the same thing as "those not so fresh" days.:ok

[Han Solo]

I told you those were not redeamable on Saturdays. LOL.

......and since I believe in the force I believe that you YOU are sexy!

What if I have a special request????

Agreed!

1. Wrong...I don't listen to you ...you're just a silly woman :na
2. Agreed
3. We could barter I'm sure
4. Figures THAT is what you Agree with out of all that:rolleyes:

[Han Solo]

Hey Sneaky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't wanna work, I just wanna look sexy all day..... What do you think about that! HA!
PSA..............Friends shouldn't let friends Post Drunk:ok

[Sneaky]

FEMINIST? Kinda like a female prick right?
Um, no.

[Han Solo]

My first thought ~ Feminazi... and my first reaction negative... thanks in no small part to comedian Rush Limbaugh. If there was ever anything that would turn a female towards anti-republicansim it seems to me like it would be him and his narcoticly induced ridiculous rhetoric...Since he seems to be the party's lead spokesman and charactor assination specialist for the last too many years.

Thanks Sneaky, I've been needing to get that posion out of my system.
:sc so are you saying your a feminist or a democrat??....or a Femocrat??........or a DemoNazi??

[dashslow]

What should feminists do for the women that don't want to be represented by feminism? Conscript them into the rank and file?

[sandycrotch]

Well, by my definition, you sound like a Feminist Sandy. (Men can be feminists too! LOL):ok

An honorary feminist, I feel so very honored. Do I get a vagina pendant to wear around mt neck or something?

[angelis]

I think you're right Sneaky, feminism has different meanings for different people. I guess the stereotypical "man hater" is the first connotation that would spring to mind for a number of people.

Personally I see a feminist as being a strong woman, not afraid to say what she thinks and to fight for her rights (to party?! lol). I think a feminist likes to prove they are equal to a man whether that be in the workplace or on other levels. A feminist likes to have an identity, not just "the wife" or "the girlfriend", it's nice to be recognised for just being you!!

[Brink]

I would find it very interesting, neither positive nor negative until I knew exactly what it meant to the individual, and how it resembled my own version, remembering that everyone has the right to an opinion. I consider myself to hold an interest in women’s rights, as a citizen and professionally, but I’ll avoid the “feminist” label for now! Of the women I’ve met who have identified with “feminism”, I’ve been able to relate to most of them and have enjoyed talking about it. We have a Minister for Women here in the U.K. and she’s certainly not a man-basher - you just couldn’t work successfully under those terms. Politics is still, largely, a male environment. I hope my niece aspires to be more like her than certain popular-culture icons, not worthy to be the influences that they are!

The notion of feminism has perhaps been hijacked recently and “sensationalised”, especially by those wanting to use if for their own notoriety. Feminism now seems a loaded, provocative subject, aimed more at men than women. Of course, men are involved in the equality of the sexes, but we should be moving away from deriding people for just existing - human rights being what they are. These gender battles, however, are more part of a media circus than what happens in everyday life. Real life women should be allowed to savour their gender, and their needs, much the same as people demonstrate their patriotism. I grew up surrounded by “strong” women. And they are still very vocal, very incessant, and very feminine to this day! Men shouldn’t fear the average feminist. You don’t want them thinking you’re scared of something, do ya!

Lets not forget that women don’t have totally equal opportunities in the world today. The true “feminist agenda”, that aims to voice women’s basic rights, still has a distance to go. There’s a huge void in the way women are treated in certain parts of the globe. Those people need the right advocates - and women in power. The twisting of the subject only serves to distract from the real issues.

[Rays]

I'll be honest and say my initial reaction to the word is negative, not that I think it's right to think that way. I guess is has to do with the feminists I have known in the past. They tended to like equality in some areas and at the same time enjoy some of the benefits that women receive that men don't. They also tend to think of relationships differently than I do. They tend to think of it as 50/50 and I just don't see them that way. A relationship should be 100/100. Of course this is a stereotype based on the people I have known in the past. I absolutely think that feminism in and of itself is a good thing, and equality between the sexes has come a long way because of it. My goodness, we had a woman running for President and another one for vice president. How far has this country come? I think it's great!

[OnceAKing]

:sc so are you saying your a feminist or a democrat??....or a Femocrat??........or a DemoNazi??

Yes, I mean NO, errrrrr I think so, I'm confused...damn where's Fly? I need her to straighten me out on this.

[MCat]

feminism : A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/female) must be removed in order to bring about such equality (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/equality).

feminist : A person who supports the equality of women with men. A member of a feminist political movement. One who believes in the social, political, and economical equality of the sexes

feminine : Having the qualities associated with a woman or the female gender (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gender); suitable to, or characteristic of, a woman; nurturing; not masculine or aggressive

I believe in the first one. I have to, its my responsibility as a woman and mother.
I am the second as I previously stated.
I am also the third and proud of it.

I try not to get on a soap box about it, but in my profession I deal with all types of stereotypes. Its hard to believe in this day and age that in some places, woman are still viewed as the "lesser" gender, no matter the miracles that can be performed by their bodies only.

I agree that a man or woman can be a chauvinist, and in every group there is the extreme member and/or group that grabs the spotlight and gives the whole movement a bad rap. I feel its my responsibility to know my rights as a woman and to make sure they are respected. But I also know my place as a mother, in raising boys to understand that women are their equals, and are to be treated as such....:spbx:

I highlighted in red the parts I agree with. Men and Women are not equal in all ways, and will never be. I personally prefer that women do not hold jobs that are meant to be completed by a man with a mans strength, a mans muscular body etc. Women's brains are made different than a mans...we like to think we are the smarter sex...using both sides of our brain, it may be true...a man can't efficiently multi-task the same way mom's can. They just aren't made that way. They may get the job done, but its not the same. Just as women can eventually get the mans job done, but not as efficiently and most times not as well..just because we are not as strong...our bodies are not made for that kind of work.

I am not a feminist....I don't want to be a feminist. If I had to...I could work on the road crew, run a loader, whatever I had to do to take care of my children. A man can do it better than I can...I admit it. I do believe that the right woman could be a very good president of the United States. I prefer that a Man be the leader....the Woman a helpmate. Just as God intended....

Shit....this is gonna get me in trouble....Jerry...I'll let you be the Daddy....most of the time.....lol:sng

[OnceAKing]

I highlighted in red the parts I agree with. Men and Women are not equal in all ways, and will never be. I personally prefer that women do not hold jobs that are meant to be completed by a man with a mans strength, a mans muscular body etc. Women's brains are made different than a mans...we like to think we are the smarter sex...using both sides of our brain, it may be true...a man can't efficiently multi-task the same way mom's can. They just aren't made that way. They may get the job done, but its not the same. Just as women can eventually get the mans job done, but not as efficiently and most times not as well..just because we are not as strong...our bodies are not made for that kind of work.

I am not a feminist....I don't want to be a feminist. If I had to...I could work on the road crew, run a loader, whatever I had to do to take care of my children. A man can do it better than I can...I admit it. I do believe that the right woman could be a very good president of the United States. I prefer that a Man be the leader....the Woman a helpmate. Just as God intended....

Shit....this is gonna get me in trouble....Jerry...I'll let you be the Daddy....most of the time.....lol:sng

Cowboy rule # 1304, "You can massage bullshit with words all you want to but it doesn't change the fact that, 1) It's still bullshit, 2) it still stinks, 3) and it'll still stain your new jeans.

AS evidenced by you just telling me that, "I need to go get my ass ready to go",,,and to, "remember who washes the friggen jeans"

Two orders in the same sentence? Is that what you mean by multi-tasking?

[Sneaky]

An honorary feminist, I feel so very honored. Do I get a vagina pendant to wear around mt neck or something?
LOL. Yes you do! You can even use the term "LMVO" if you choose. :ok

[Sneaky]

My first thought ~ Feminazi... and my first reaction negative... thanks in no small part to comedian Rush Limbaugh. If there was ever anything that would turn a female towards anti-republicansim it seems to me like it would be him and his narcoticly induced ridiculous rhetoric...Since he seems to be the party's lead spokesman and charactor assination specialist for the last too many years.

Thanks Sneaky, I've been needing to get that posion out of my system.
I think it's terms like that, along with the stereotype of the angry lesbian feminist that hates men and soposedly has "penis envy" that hurts feminism and keeps people (both male & female), who really do posess fundamental feminist beliefs as identifying themselves as such. It ends up being something agressive sounding and scary than as something inclusive as it should be.

Women are diverse. Some physically strong, some shy, some feminine, some not. We are mothers, professonals, caretakers and soldiers.

Maybe we need a new term? Writer Alice Walker doesn't care for the word "Feminist" as a label and prefers the term "Womanist" because that doesn't have all the negative associations with it.

I know it's a label...but isn't everything in which we describe ourselves? Rebublican, Democrat, Catholic, Jewish, African American, Gay, Straight, Bi Sexual, MetroSexual, Blond, Brunette, Socialist, Cowboy, Home Owner....it's just a term to describe part of yourself that makes up the entire complicated whole that we call ourselves.

[sandycrotch]

LOL. Yes you do! You can even use the term "LMVO" if you choose. :ok

That's friggin' sweet!

[Sneaky]

I highlighted in red the parts I agree with. Men and Women are not equal in all ways, and will never be. I personally prefer that women do not hold jobs that are meant to be completed by a man with a mans strength, a mans muscular body etc. Women's brains are made different than a mans...we like to think we are the smarter sex...using both sides of our brain, it may be true...a man can't efficiently multi-task the same way mom's can. They just aren't made that way. They may get the job done, but its not the same. Just as women can eventually get the mans job done, but not as efficiently and most times not as well..just because we are not as strong...our bodies are not made for that kind of work.

I am not a feminist....I don't want to be a feminist. If I had to...I could work on the road crew, run a loader, whatever I had to do to take care of my children. A man can do it better than I can...I admit it. I do believe that the right woman could be a very good president of the United States. I prefer that a Man be the leader....the Woman a helpmate. Just as God intended....

Shit....this is gonna get me in trouble....Jerry...I'll let you be the Daddy....most of the time.....lol:sng

It's rare you find two people, male or female, that are equal in every way. I've known some pretty delicate men in my life and some pretty physically strong tough women. If you compare individuals you are going to find strengths & weaknesses in each. I've known stay at home Dads that are way more nurturing than I could ever be. Yes, there are some things that those with more feminine qualities gravitate more towards and those with more masculine qualities gravitate towards.


Whether God intended woman to be man's helpmate is probably another thread. LOL. I remember the one thread in which it the bible quote describing women as a "weaker vessel" was argued. My own opinion on that subject is that I think it depends on the individual. I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman staying home, raising he children and nurturing her family if that is what she chooses to do and is good at it.....but there are other choices out there and we should be allowed to explore those and find out what gifts we possess (both as men and women) that can contribute to the world and make it a better place. (This in no way takes away from the TONS of good things our stay at home mothers give back to the world. It's one of the most important jobs out there & should be given the respect & appreciation it deserves. I also think it's sad that in our economic climate that option is being taken away from women who now must work outside the home and their hearts are home with their children where they would rather be...but that too is another thread I suppose....)

In some areas of the world having that choice still isn't an option. In some areas of the world giving birth to a baby girl is a still a huge disappointment. In some areas of the world it is still ok to remove a females clitoris so that her future husband doesn't have to worry about her having a passionate nature and possibly cheating on her husband. In some areas of the world a woman is still considered her husbands "property". This is why feminism came to be. women need to have choices and be able to control their own lives and their own destiny.


Ok. I'm gonna get off my soapbox now. I'm getting dizzy up hear. LOL.

I can say that I am very grateful that I live in a place where I can speak my mind, leave my husband if I chose to, work outside the home, vote, and own my own property. Had it not been feminism, I might not be able to do any of those things.

[Sneaky]

What should feminists do for the women that don't want to be represented by feminism? Conscript them into the rank and file?
I think there is a lot to learn from the fact that there are a lot of women and men do not want to identify themselves as feminists. I think that is an individuals right to describe themselves, and their beliefs as they choose to.

[OnceAKing]

I think it's terms like that, along with the stereotype of the angry lesbian feminist that hates men and soposedly has "penis envy" that hurts feminism and keeps people (both male & female), who really do posess fundamental feminist beliefs as identifying themselves as such. It ends up being something agressive sounding and scary than as something inclusive as it should be.

Women are diverse. Some physically strong, some shy, some feminine, some not. We are mothers, professonals, caretakers and soldiers.

Maybe we need a new term? Writer Alice Walker doesn't care for the word "Feminist" as a label and prefers the term "Womanist" because that doesn't have all the negative associations with it.

I know it's a label...but isn't everything in which we describe ourselves? Rebublican, Democrat, Catholic, Jewish, African American, Gay, Straight, Bi Sexual, MetroSexual, Blond, Brunette, Socialist, Cowboy, Home Owner....it's just a term to describe part of yourself that makes up the entire complicated whole that we call ourselves.

Okay so if I nominate Sneaky for President would that mean we'd have to have Han as First Hubby?

[Sneaky]

Okay so if I nominate Sneaky for President would that mean we'd have to have Han as First Hubby?
I prefer giving him the title of "Presidential Play Thing".:ok

[jmsmith12345]

I prefer giving him the title of "Presidential Play Thing".:ok

Can you just call him "National Bitch Boy" instead?

[tiger50]

Yes, I mean NO, errrrrr I think so, I'm confused...damn where's Fly? I need her to straighten me out on this.

uhhh lol ok... :sc

[learman3]

It's just a word...not so scary at all.

[MCat]

It's rare you find two people, male or female, that are equal in every way. I've known some pretty delicate men in my life and some pretty physically strong tough women. If you compare individuals you are going to find strengths & weaknesses in each. I've known stay at home Dads that are way more nurturing than I could ever be. Yes, there are some things that those with more feminine qualities gravitate more towards and those with more masculine qualities gravitate towards.


Whether God intended woman to be man's helpmate is probably another thread. LOL. I remember the one thread in which it the bible quote describing women as a "weaker vessel" was argued. My own opinion on that subject is that I think it depends on the individual. I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman staying home, raising he children and nurturing her family if that is what she chooses to do and is good at it.....but there are other choices out there and we should be allowed to explore those and find out what gifts we possess (both as men and women) that can contribute to the world and make it a better place. (This in no way takes away from the TONS of good things our stay at home mothers give back to the world. It's one of the most important jobs out there & should be given the respect & appreciation it deserves. I also think it's sad that in our economic climate that option is being taken away from women who now must work outside the home and their hearts are home with their children where they would rather be...but that too is another thread I suppose....)

In some areas of the world having that choice still isn't an option. In some areas of the world giving birth to a baby girl is a still a huge disappointment. In some areas of the world it is still ok to remove a females clitoris so that her future husband doesn't have to worry about her having a passionate nature and possibly cheating on her husband. In some areas of the world a woman is still considered her husbands "property". This is why feminism came to be. women need to have choices and be able to control their own lives and their own destiny.


Ok. I'm gonna get off my soapbox now. I'm getting dizzy up hear. LOL.

I can say that I am very grateful that I live in a place where I can speak my mind, leave my husband if I chose to, work outside the home, vote, and own my own property. Had it not been feminism, I might not be able to do any of those things.

Guess I should have added "Just My Thoughts" at the end of my post. Not saying anyone is right or wrong....just saying what I prefer.

[tiger50]

Guess I should have added "Just My Thoughts" at the end of my post. Not saying anyone is right or wrong....just saying what I prefer.

uhh wat waz it u prefer?????:sc

[SirFox]

I must have something on the brain...I thought that the famous "f" word was for something else than "feminism..."

[jmsmith12345]

It's rare you find two people, male or female, that are equal in every way. I've known some pretty delicate men in my life and some pretty physically strong tough women. If you compare individuals you are going to find strengths & weaknesses in each. I've known stay at home Dads that are way more nurturing than I could ever be. Yes, there are some things that those with more feminine qualities gravitate more towards and those with more masculine qualities gravitate towards.


Whether God intended woman to be man's helpmate is probably another thread. LOL. I remember the one thread in which it the bible quote describing women as a "weaker vessel" was argued. My own opinion on that subject is that I think it depends on the individual. I don't think there is anything wrong with a woman staying home, raising he children and nurturing her family if that is what she chooses to do and is good at it.....but there are other choices out there and we should be allowed to explore those and find out what gifts we possess (both as men and women) that can contribute to the world and make it a better place. (This in no way takes away from the TONS of good things our stay at home mothers give back to the world. It's one of the most important jobs out there & should be given the respect & appreciation it deserves. I also think it's sad that in our economic climate that option is being taken away from women who now must work outside the home and their hearts are home with their children where they would rather be...but that too is another thread I suppose....)

In some areas of the world having that choice still isn't an option. In some areas of the world giving birth to a baby girl is a still a huge disappointment. In some areas of the world it is still ok to remove a females clitoris so that her future husband doesn't have to worry about her having a passionate nature and possibly cheating on her husband. In some areas of the world a woman is still considered her husbands "property". This is why feminism came to be. women need to have choices and be able to control their own lives and their own destiny.


Ok. I'm gonna get off my soapbox now. I'm getting dizzy up hear. LOL.

I can say that I am very grateful that I live in a place where I can speak my mind, leave my husband if I chose to, work outside the home, vote, and own my own property. Had it not been feminism, I might not be able to do any of those things.

Oh how I love when God and the Bible are brought into any discussion about the roles of men and women in a society that is roughly 2000 years removed from the "good book." The Bible was written by men, in a society dominated by men, and in no small part to keep the religious power in the hands of men. Those who are overly religious...stop reading now!!!

Anyone who believes that they have the answer as to the intentions of their "god" is not only overly presumptive, but also exponentially stupid. Also, anyone who lives their lives in accordance to strict adherence to any religious doctrine, and especially any religious text is also quite misguided. Again, these are books...written by men, translated (often poorly) in many different languages and to support the various sects of any particular religion. If the Bible, the Koran, or Torah were perfect documents, written by the hand of "god," then why the myriad of translations and interpretations? Religion of any sort is just another "ism" in my book. It too often strips us of independent thought and repressed at least 50% of it's followers. What kind of "god" would suppress half of "his/her" children? Look in your own heart, use your own mind, and trust your own soul to be the best person you can be...oh, and treat these texts as they should be treated...good stories to help guide you along a positive path...nothing more, nothing less.

Oh, to bring this back to the "F" word thread...women and men are completely different creatures, but that does not mean that different can not be equal. Mathematics teaches us that.

2 + 2 = 4, but so does 1 + 3. It really is that simple...different, but equal.

[dashslow]

If I tell a woman that I am sympathetic to feminism, will she believe me? Or will she call me out for wanting sex (again)? It's difficult for me to read the male opinion in this thread and not wonder how much bullshit is inserted to swoon any particular woman in this thread. Maybe the best way to reach parity is to not use a name that calls attention to the differences between sexes. What about People-ism? The word 'feminism' puts me on the defensive as if I did something wrong. I am not a chauvinist. Could you pick a name that men want to get behind. (A pun could work here.)

Why should I have to apologize for being male? I think I am a good person and my interests lie in fairness for everyone in every circumstance.

I am NOT going to burn my jockstrap so women might like me more.

[SirFox]

If I tell a woman that I am sympathetic to feminism, will she believe me? Or will she call me out for wanting sex (again)? It's difficult for me to read the male opinion in this thread and not wonder how much bullshit is inserted to swoon any particular woman in this thread. Maybe the best way to reach parity is to not use a name that calls attention to the differences between sexes. What about People-ism? The word 'feminism' puts me on the defensive as if I did something wrong. I am not a chauvinist. Could you pick a name that men want to get behind. (A pun could work here.)

Why should I have to apologize for being male? I think I am a good person and my interests lie in fairness for everyone in every circumstance.

I am NOT going to burn my jockstrap so women might like me more.

I believe that the feminism movement has gone too far...
It is like a pendulum that has gone to the extreme south or north (not to use the right and left directions for fear of being political).
At the moment I am reading about how people lived in Europe 150 years ago...and it is extremely interesting to read that some of the things that we take for granted did not exist or existed differently.

I believe that the time has come for us ALL to change many of the things that we do not like. The various Churches have done havoc in our intimate lives in the way we live. If we are today in such a mess, the roots lie in a very close minded environment of all kinds.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with you that I don't want to trade my individuality or my muscles especially one..in particular..:yks

[SydneyCarton]

I am not a feminist, not by any means. Nor am I a chauvinist.

Our Mother raised us to be respectful. That is how I describe myself. I am gentlemanly toward women who deserve it; if they prove themselves unworthy of it, I treat them as I would any other man.

I do not believe that women are inherently incapable of most things guys can do. There are certain differences that exist from nature, but most things men can do women can do. They should be paid the same as men.

I am not in favor of calling God, She. One time, I opened a car door for a woman, and she began lecturing me on the gender of God.

"You know God's a woman, don't you?" she screeched.

"Fine," I responded, "I'll open the door for Her, too."

That sums it up for me.

[Frenchie_lady]

I think that the battles very brave women did back in the 60's have benefitted us, and have hurt us as well. But i think it was a necessary evil.

I think that my generation (X) has pretty much assimilated it without sacreficing (sp?) anything feminin.

C'mon boys, doesn't have to be all black and white!

[SydneyCarton]

I think that the battles very brave women did back in the 60's have benefitted us, and have hurt us as well. But i think it was a necessary evil.

I think that my generation (X) has pretty much assimilated it without sacreficing (sp?) anything feminin.

C'mon boys, doesn't have to be all black and white!

I don't think that it is black and white. I think it's a heavy shade of grey.

My point is only that I wasn't raised to expect the woman to stay at home cooking dinner, with seven children hanging from her apron, waiting to serve me when I got home. I think there are inherent roles that women and men have that have been bestowed on them by nature, but that's it.

I don't think for example, that men and women can compete on the highest levels in sports. Candace Parker could kick my ass on a court, but she would not match up well with Kobe or LeBron. In the courtroom, however, there is no difference. So it depends on what we're talking about.

Where I do draw the distinction, perhaps sexist in a way, is where women act like complete jackasses and yet expect to be treated with respect due to a lady. Sorry, it doesn't work that way with me. If you want to emulate the assholic traits of a man, you'll be dealt with just as the assholic males get treated. Your XX chromosomes don't get you a pass.

[SirFox]

DRAGON LADY. You are correct to say that things should not be black and white. I agree. Perhaps the black has to hit the white before we reach an agreement.

My parents taught me to be respectful of all women. The education that I received said that all women were fragile, should be considered beautiful and should be honoured. I was taught well. (I honoured many of the gentler sex, indeed.)

My life experience has shown me otherwise.

I remember visiting New England and the Big Apple in the same two week business trip.
I was given the finger by a lady who I let pass in front of my car. Later that week, I opened a store door at Bloomingale's in New York to have that same door shoved in my face.

When I come Stateside, (not so much the case in continental Europe at this writing), I am careful not to open doors to anyone..

I attribute that to a bad 14 days...still I do wonder....the two incidents left me with a bad taste in my mouth...and a reasoning that when coming Stateside...one has to be careful...handling women.

This women's violence is due to poor sexual release or a feeling of not wanting to be women?

[Shawn]

I think when you hear the term, it does spawn some negative feelings, but that's true with alot of other things for me, when it comes down to it I just do not really care for ANYONE whom feels the urge to shove their beliefs/views/opinions down my throat. I may actually share your view and have sympathy for your cause... but it takes alot out of it when you expect me to be as motivated as you... the extremists tend to go this route, hence the negative stigma.

Wrong is wrong... I would hope that most of us can atleast see it with out having someone use a loudspeaker to "inform" us.

[SirFox]

I don't think that it is black and white. I think it's a heavy shade of grey.

My point is only that I wasn't raised to expect the woman to stay at home cooking dinner, with seven children hanging from her apron, waiting to serve me when I got home. I think there are inherent roles that women and men have that have been bestowed on them by nature, but that's it.

I don't think for example, that men and women can compete on the highest levels in sports. Candace Parker could kick my ass on a court, but she would not match up well with Kobe or LeBron. In the courtroom, however, there is no difference. So it depends on what we're talking about.

Where I do draw the distinction, perhaps sexist in a way, is where women act like complete jackasses and yet expect to be treated with respect due to a lady. Sorry, it doesn't work that way with me. If you want to emulate the assholic traits of a man, you'll be dealt with just as the assholic males get treated. Your XX chromosomes don't get you a pass.


YES!

[jmsmith12345]

Since this is about feminism...the one thing that women can for which they always deserve the utmost respect and reverence is...

http://cdn.holytaco.com/www/sites/default/files/photo/d1/6577/Push-Olivia-Push_500x500.jpg

[Sneaky]

Guess I should have added "Just My Thoughts" at the end of my post. Not saying anyone is right or wrong....just saying what I prefer.
I know you were, and I sort of get long winded apparantly. LOL. Thank you for your thoughts.:)

[Sneaky]

Oh, to bring this back to the "F" word thread...women and men are completely different creatures, but that does not mean that different can not be equal. Mathematics teaches us that.

2 + 2 = 4, but so does 1 + 3. It really is that simple...different, but equal.

IOU some Rep points JM. It won't let me give them to you now. That was a great way of putting that.

[Frenchie_lady]

DRAGON LADY. You are correct to say that things should not be black and white. I agree. Perhaps the black has to hit the white before we reach an agreement.

My parents taught me to be respectful of all women. The education that I received said that all women were fragile, should be considered beautiful and should be honoured. I was taught well. (I honoured many of the gentler sex, indeed.)

My life experience has shown me otherwise.

I remember visiting New England and the Big Apple in the same two week business trip.
I was given the finger by a lady who I let pass in front of my car. Later that week, I opened a store door at Bloomingale's in New York to have that same door shoved in my face.

When I come Stateside, (not so much the case in continental Europe at this writing), I am careful not to open doors to anyone..

I attribute that to a bad 14 days...still I do wonder....the two incidents left me with a bad taste in my mouth...and a reasoning that when coming Stateside...one has to be careful...handling women.

This women's violence is due to poor sexual release or a feeling of not wanting to be women?


I don't blame what you have described on feminism AT ALL, i blame it on people loosing all their manners and becoming very self absobed and being selfish.

Its not a question of who can beat the other's ass in whatever subject matter or sport... its about living together as equals, its not a competition.

[Sneaky]

If I tell a woman that I am sympathetic to feminism, will she believe me? Or will she call me out for wanting sex (again)? It's difficult for me to read the male opinion in this thread and not wonder how much bullshit is inserted to swoon any particular woman in this thread. Maybe the best way to reach parity is to not use a name that calls attention to the differences between sexes. What about People-ism? The word 'feminism' puts me on the defensive as if I did something wrong. I am not a chauvinist. .
I think there's lots of met that have expressed a negative perception of feminism. I haven't seen any guys come into the thread shouting "Girl Power!". Anyway most of the men here all have thier own minds and are not going to use a feminist platform as a way to get lucky or make us "swoon".
Could you pick a name that men want to get behind. (A pun could work here.).
LOL. A name you could get behind??
Why should I have to apologize for being male? I think I am a good person and my interests lie in fairness for everyone in every circumstance.

I am NOT going to burn my jockstrap so women might like me more.
Who said you have to apologize for being male or burn your jockstrap? If you're interests lie in fairness for everyone you have the same fundamental beliefs as I do.

I am amazed at the emotion that the word evokes, even when a definition is supplied. I find it very interesting.

[SydneyCarton]

I don't blame what you have described on feminism AT ALL, i blame it on people loosing all their manners and becoming very self absobed and being selfish.

Its not a question of who can beat the other's ass in whatever subject matter or sport... its about living together as equals, its not a competition.

I agree. And when a woman acts like a complete jackass, she should be treated like any man would be treated who acted accordingly. I don't presume to speak for SirFox, but I think that the notion that a woman, by virtue of her gender, gets a pass on her behavior defeats the purpose of treating people as equals.

My allusion about sports and what not is simply to point out that there are certain areas where equality, though desirable, just isn't practical. It doesn't mean that women aren't equal to men, it just means that women aren't equal to men in a particular fashion, and vice versa.

[Sneaky]

DRAGON LADY. You are correct to say that things should not be black and white. I agree. Perhaps the black has to hit the white before we reach an agreement.

My parents taught me to be respectful of all women. The education that I received said that all women were fragile, should be considered beautiful and should be honoured. I was taught well. (I honoured many of the gentler sex, indeed.)

My life experience has shown me otherwise.

I remember visiting New England and the Big Apple in the same two week business trip.
I was given the finger by a lady who I let pass in front of my car. Later that week, I opened a store door at Bloomingale's in New York to have that same door shoved in my face.

When I come Stateside, (not so much the case in continental Europe at this writing), I am careful not to open doors to anyone..

I attribute that to a bad 14 days...still I do wonder....the two incidents left me with a bad taste in my mouth...and a reasoning that when coming Stateside...one has to be careful...handling women.

This women's violence is due to poor sexual release or a feeling of not wanting to be women?


I don't blame what you have described on feminism AT ALL, i blame it on people loosing all their manners and becoming very self absobed and being selfish.

Its not a question of who can beat the other's ass in whatever subject matter or sport... its about living together as equals, its not a competition.
I agree with Dragon Lady...those women were just plain RUDE, and we have lots of rude men and women in America. I'm sorry you had that experience here. They weren't necessarily Feminist though.

That was such a great way to put that Dragon Lady.

PS- Most of us don't mind be honored one bit...or treated as beautiful. We're still a girls....and sometimes...even tough old me has a fragile moment or two.

[Sneaky]

I think that the notion that a woman, by virtue of her gender, gets a pass on her behavior defeats the purpose of treating people as equals.
I agree with you on this, as I would think most reasonable women would.

[SydneyCarton]

I agree with Dragon Lady...those women were just plain RUDE, and we have lots of rude men and women in America. I'm sorry you had that experience here. They weren't necessarily Feminist though.

That was such a great way to put that Dragon Lady.

PS- Most of us don't mind be honored one bit...or treated as beautiful. We're still a girls....and sometimes...even tough old me has a fragile moment or two.



This is so true. Courtesy is a lost art in this country.

I think that for women to be rude underscores the equality we've achieved, to a point. Not having been around before the era of Equal Rights, I can't say that women were less rude then, but I think they might have been. Equal Rights has opened to doors to so many things, good and bad, that if women are more rude nowadays, it's an unfortunate by-product of the liberties they now enjoy.

I do disagree that it's not a part of feminism, however, because I think that some within the movement see it as necessary to achieve their aims. While it may not be a platform topic, I think it might well be part of the strategy to obtain what they want.

I always give a woman the benefit of the doubt and treat her like a lady. She chooses whether I change my behavior.

[jmsmith12345]

Sneaky, will you just get your feminist ass back in the kitchen and make me some dinner, and while you are at it, get me another beer and bring in some fresh batteries for the remote. :D

Oh yeah, almost forgot...do it in that stripey outfit I showed you in that rebellious but prolific social group...ok :ok

[Sneaky]

This is so true. Courtesy is a lost art in this country.

I think that for women to be rude underscores the equality we've achieved, to a point. Not having been around before the era of Equal Rights, I can't say that women were less rude then, but I think they might have been. Equal Rights has opened to doors to so many things, good and bad, that if women are more rude nowadays, it's an unfortunate by-product of the liberties they now enjoy.

I do disagree that it's not a part of feminism, however, because I think that some within the movement see it as necessary to achieve their aims. While it may not be a platform topic, I think it might well be part of the strategy to obtain what they want.

I always give a woman the benefit of the doubt and treat her like a lady. She chooses whether I change my behavior.
Well...

I'm not sure rudeness is a "Female" issue. There are tons of rude men out there as well. I think the lack of courtesy across the board has to do more with our culture that one particular sex.

Men have gotten far more rude over the years too. For example, you don't know what it's like to have conversations with men as they oggle at your chest and don't even make a point of covering up that they are doing it (in a professional environment when you aren't wearing anything inapropriate!). I am in no way excusing rude behavior exibited by either sex, I'm just pointing out that it exists in a lot of ways on both sides.

[Sneaky]

Sneaky, will you just get your feminist ass back in the kitchen and make me some dinner, and while you are at it, get me another beer and bring in some fresh batteries for the remote. :D

Oh yeah, almost forgot...do it in that stripey outfit I showed you in that rebellious but prolific social group...ok :ok
I need Fly's "Sigh" smilies here. :rolleyes:

[jmsmith12345]

I need Fly's "Sigh" smilies here. :rolleyes:

I acknowledge that you are a great cook, are great at multitasking, and know a lot about technology, and all I get is the desire to flash the sigh smilie???

See, no wonder feminists have such a bad rep. :D

[Sneaky]

I acknowledge that you are a great cook, are great at multitasking, and know a lot about technology, and all I get is the desire to flash the sigh smilie???

See, no wonder feminists have such a bad rep. :D
I know! LOL!! If I get all huffy it just proves the stereotype is correct.
I'm screwed! LOL.

[jmsmith12345]

I know! LOL!! If I get all huffy it just proves the stereotype is correct.
I'm screwed! LOL.

Hey, don't get me in trouble with that "bitch boy" Han by making sexual references in your respondes.

[dashslow]

Sneaky!

Maybe the bullshit I'm referring to is not exclusive to this thread. It seems to permeate most threads. I'm trying to put up an unfiltered opinion, one which I probably would not give if you were tracing circles on my thighs with your socks. Know what I'm saying?

[Sneaky]

Sneaky!

May be the bullshit I'm referring to in not exclusive to this thread. It seems to permeate most threads. I'm trying to put up an unfiltered opinion, one which I probably would not give if you were tracing circles on my thighs with your socks. Know what I'm saying?
Are you saying that Men sometimes say things to women just to get "some"?:yksHere?? No! LOL.

[Sneaky]

Hey, don't get me in trouble with that "bitch boy" Han by making sexual references in your respondes.That's "Presidential Plaything"! Show some respect for God's sake.
:ok

[jmsmith12345]

That's "Presidential Plaything"! Show some respect for God's sake.
:ok

Yeah, this is the feminist thread after all...sorry Han.

[SydneyCarton]

Well...

I'm not sure rudeness is a "Female" issue. There are tons of rude men out there as well. I think the lack of courtesy across the board has to do more with our culture that one particular sex.

Men have gotten far more rude over the years too. For example, you don't know what it's like to have conversations with men as they oggle at your chest and don't even make a point of covering up that they are doing it (in a professional environment when you aren't wearing anything inapropriate!). I am in no way excusing rude behavior exibited by either sex, I'm just pointing out that it exists in a lot of ways on both sides.

There is no question that men are ruder than women, in my opinion. In fact, I think I alluded to it in an earlier post, wherein I suggested that women seem to have picked up men's worst traits.

Men's rudeness exceeds that of women by far. I have seen more rude behavior from men easily. That's part of what has frustrated me all these years, in that despite their bad behavior, these same men find women who find any number of excuses to justify being with them, when gentlemen like myself are left out in the cold because of superficial reasons.

Men have to be taken to task for their behavior or else it will continue unchecked. I don't disagree with your premise at all.

[Frenchie_lady]

I agree. And when a woman acts like a complete jackass, she should be treated like any man would be treated who acted accordingly. I don't presume to speak for SirFox, but I think that the notion that a woman, by virtue of her gender, gets a pass on her behavior defeats the purpose of treating people as equals.

My allusion about sports and what not is simply to point out that there are certain areas where equality, though desirable, just isn't practical. It doesn't mean that women aren't equal to men, it just means that women aren't equal to men in a particular fashion, and vice versa.

Far from me would be to excuse women of rudness or any other unwarranted behavior just because they are women, but i wouldn't do it for men on the same base either...

Not only good things comes with wanting to be equals, you have the responsibilities that go with the new liberties.

[SydneyCarton]

Far from me would be to excuse women of rudness or any other unwarranted behavior just because they are women, but i wouldn't do it for men on the same base either...

Not only good things comes with wanting to be equals, you have the responsibilities that go with the new liberties.

I can cite several examples of manly misbehavior. I'm sickened by it. I was taught by our Mother to be gentlemanly to everyone. As SirFox noted, over time I have become jaded by the behavior of women. Growing up, I was innured to the rudeness of men, but it wasn't as prevalent among women as it's become.

Rudeness is inexcusable regarless of the offender's gender. I just think that when it comes to rude women, they can't expect to have it both ways. Absent a provocation, I will always treat a woman like a lady and would not have it any other way.

But it's high time that good behavior was demanded of so many men, too.

[wisconsin(m)]

There is no question that men are ruder than women, in my opinion. In fact, I think I alluded to it in an earlier post, wherein I suggested that women seem to have picked up men's worst traits.

Men's rudeness exceeds that of women by far. I have seen more rude behavior from men easily. That's part of what has frustrated me all these years, in that despite their bad behavior, these same men find women who find any number of excuses to justify being with them, when gentlemen like myself are left out in the cold because of superficial reasons.

Men have to be taken to task for their behavior or else it will continue unchecked. I don't disagree with your premise at all.


I am sorry as I usually do not respond to this nonsense, BUT..... even though I happen to agree with your theory ...... if you were here you would see me giving you the universal sign of stroking myself..... :yks

[SydneyCarton]

I am sorry as I usually do not respond to this nonsense, BUT..... even though I happen to agree with your theory ...... if you were here you would see me giving you the universal sign of stroking myself..... :yks

Which would only serve to prove my point.

[fly]

This is so true. Courtesy is a lost art in this country.

I think that for women to be rude underscores the equality we've achieved, to a point. Not having been around before the era of Equal Rights, I can't say that women were less rude then, but I think they might have been. Equal Rights has opened to doors to so many things, good and bad, that if women are more rude nowadays, it's an unfortunate by-product of the liberties they now enjoy.

I do disagree that it's not a part of feminism, however, because I think that some within the movement see it as necessary to achieve their aims. While it may not be a platform topic, I think it might well be part of the strategy to obtain what they want.

I always give a woman the benefit of the doubt and treat her like a lady. She chooses whether I change my behavior.

I think rude people are rude people gender aside.
I think that women of "yesteryear" were not so outspoken as women of today. I think that some men interpret "outspoken" with "rude" when that is not necessarily the case.

[SydneyCarton]

I think rude people are rude people gender aside.
I think that women of "yesteryear" were not so outspoken as women of today. I think that some men interpret "outspoken" with "rude" when that is not necessarily the case.


I dont' deny that outspokenness can be confused with rudeness, but I have rarely mistaken the two. There is no doubt that some men find women's outspokenness to be offensive, but as long as it's not rude, I don't equate the two.

[Sneaky]

I dont' deny that outspokenness can be confused with rudeness, but I have rarely mistaken the two. There is no doubt that some men find women's outspokenness to be offensive, but as long as it's not rude, I don't equate the two.
It's good you can diferentiate, but I agree with Fly. Sometimes outspoken-ness and being "direct" for the female gender can be percieved as rude. It's something I've experienced myself anyway.

[SydneyCarton]

It's good you can diferentiate, but I agree with Fly. Sometimes outspoken-ness and being "direct" for the female gender can be percieved as rude. It's something I've experienced myself anyway.

There is no question about that. I agree with you. The views some men have of women's strength or outspokennness border on the sexist. Where a man would be perceived as strong in a given instance, a woman is labeled a bitch. I realize that.

That said, some women are simply as out of line as those men are. I tend to prefer women who have strong opinions, so their outspokenness doesn't color my perception of them as it might other men.

[dashslow]

okay, question:

Would placating a feminist be ironic? Wouldn't that also be a good example of the attitude that feminists seek to defeat?

I will do my part to do the right thing, but I'm not going to kiss anyone's ass. It seems to be widespread in these forums and its embarrassing.

Hope no one takes it personally.

[SydneyCarton]

okay, question:

Would placating a feminist be ironic? Wouldn't that also be a good example of the attitude that feminists seek to defeat?

I will do my part to do the right thing, but I'm not going to kiss anyone's ass. It seems to be widespread in these forums and its embarrassing.

Hope no one takes it personally.

Ironic? Perhaps. They'd probably take more as an insult.

My problem with feminism has always been trying to figure out the counterintuitive in it, and when I got it wrong, being blasted for it. That's why I prefer to say I'm respectful and leave it at that.

[dashslow]

Sidney,

You've been on my ass all day long. What gives? Are you like, following me around?

[SydneyCarton]

Sidney,

You've been on my ass all day long. What gives? Are you like, following me around?

I hadn't noticed that I was following you around. If I did, it certainly wasn't intentional.

Perhaps it's just that we Chicagoans stick together, eh?

[Nice]

I'll follow ya!:ok
Sidney,

You've been on my ass all day long. What gives? Are you like, following me around?

[dashslow]

I'll follow ya!:ok

I am truly flattered. You realize you made a pass in the 'f' word thread, right? Kinda funny on a couple of levels. :lf

[SirFox]

Feminism exists in other countries besides those of the US and Canada. It exists in diverse forms over here in Europe.

Feminism has taken on other ways over here and it is NOT the extreme rabidness found in North America. I find that Canadian women are more easy going and not as violent as their American sisters in order to express themselves. I wonder if that difference is that Canadians, en general, are more laid back.

I compare the feminism movement over here and see that it has different forms, no where does that violence come through as I have found it in the United States.

I have looked at socio-economic parameters and compared them. While social pressure is important in many societies, that in itself does not explain the high violence found in American women.

I have my hypothesis, and it is not pleasing to many.

[SydneyCarton]

Feminism exists in other countries besides those of the US and Canada. It exists in diverse forms over here in Europe.

Feminism has taken on other ways over here and it is NOT the extreme rabidness found in North America. I find that Canadian women are more easy going and not as violent as their American sisters in order to express themselves. I wonder if that difference is that Canadians, en general, are more laid back.

I compare the feminism movement over here and see that it has different forms, no where does that violence come through as I have found it in the United States.

I have looked at socio-economic parameters and compared them. While social pressure is important in many societies, that in itself does not explain the high violence found in American women.

I have my hypothesis, and it is not pleasing to many.




My experience in Europe was the same. When I lived in Spain, it was only ten years after Franco's death, and the women there were just getting accustomed, as was everyone, to the notion of personal liberties. When I went back at the end of the century, little had changed.

I can't comment about the situation in Canada beyond agreeing with the SirFox's contention that Canadian's seem more laid back...unless we're talking about hockey or my brother-in-law.

[OnceAKing]

If I tell a woman that I am sympathetic to feminism, will she believe me? Or will she call me out for wanting sex (again)? It's difficult for me to read the male opinion in this thread and not wonder how much bullshit is inserted to swoon any particular woman in this thread. Maybe the best way to reach parity is to not use a name that calls attention to the differences between sexes. What about People-ism? The word 'feminism' puts me on the defensive as if I did something wrong. I am not a chauvinist. Could you pick a name that men want to get behind. (A pun could work here.)

Why should I have to apologize for being male? I think I am a good person and my interests lie in fairness for everyone in every circumstance.

I am NOT going to burn my jockstrap so women might like me more.

Do you really think that goes on here? In a place like this? But seriously, I don't find it difficult to believe that there are an abundance of males quite sympathetic to the true "feminist" causes. No I'm not talking about the extremists but more in line with what Sneaky is referring to in her posts...I know I am and it's no bullshit for me...besides I don't need to, M has already been swooned by the rest of my bullshit.

[SirFox]

Do you really think that goes on here? In a place like this? But seriously, I don't find it difficult to believe that there are an abundance of males quite sympathetic to the true "feminist" causes. No I'm not talking about the extremists but more in line with what Sneaky is referring to in her posts...I know I am and it's no bullshit for me...besides I don't need to, M has already been swooned by the rest of my bullshit.

If you were able to swoon M with your supposed bullshit, then CONGRATULATIONS...you are good at bullshitting...:yks

[jmsmith12345]

If I tell a woman that I am sympathetic to feminism, will she believe me? Nope, especially while staring at her breasts while turning the heat down to 60

Or will she call me out for wanting sex (again)? Yep, try wearing pants next time...she will take your remarks a bit more seriously

It's difficult for me to read the male opinion in this thread and not wonder how much bullshit is inserted to swoon any particular woman in this thread. Sounds like a guilty conscience...just sayin'. As for me, I never use bullshit to get into a woman's pants...I prefer to use my wit, charm, and devastatingly handsome face. :D

Maybe the best way to reach parity is to not use a name that calls attention to the differences between sexes. The best way to reach parity is through unrestricted free agency...look at the NFL model for proof.

What about People-ism? There we go with another "ism". Can't we just agree that Tab A would be useless without Fold B???

The word 'feminism' puts me on the defensive as if I did something wrong. You should never show off by writing your full name in the snow...no wonder they are upset with you.

I am not a chauvinist. Denial or self-convincing???

Could you pick a name that men want to get behind. (A pun could work here.) They tried "analyst" last week, but given the current financial crisis...and several "anal" threads in here, it just didn't fit.

Why should I have to apologize for being male? You only have to apologize once or twice every 28 days. Just don't offer her an apple when she has her moment.

I think I am a good person and my interests lie in fairness for everyone in every circumstance. Try the truth...it works better.

I am NOT going to burn my jockstrap so women might like me more. Make sure to take it off first before setting it ablaze.

:ok

[Brink]

Sneaky!

Maybe the bullshit I'm referring to is not exclusive to this thread. It seems to permeate most threads. I'm trying to put up an unfiltered opinion, one which I probably would not give if you were tracing circles on my thighs with your socks. Know what I'm saying?

Why not make a thread? It would make an interesting discussion, and I'll save my thoughts for there...Keep up with the unfiltered opinion. I think it would be much preferred. Most of the women here are far too intelligent to fall for any 'swooning'.

Oooooh..I hope they heard that.

[Sneaky]

Feminism exists in other countries besides those of the US and Canada. It exists in diverse forms over here in Europe.

Feminism has taken on other ways over here and it is NOT the extreme rabidness found in North America. I find that Canadian women are more easy going and not as violent as their American sisters in order to express themselves. I wonder if that difference is that Canadians, en general, are more laid back.

I compare the feminism movement over here and see that it has different forms, no where does that violence come through as I have found it in the United States.

I have looked at socio-economic parameters and compared them. While social pressure is important in many societies, that in itself does not explain the high violence found in American women.

I have my hypothesis, and it is not pleasing to many.



While, in general I do agree that Canadians are by FAR more polite than Americans, the discripiton of a "Rabid, Violent, less laid back American Feminist" is kinda...a little bit of a stretch for me. I'm sure they exist, but so do the loud mouth american chouvinist man that grabs women inappropriatly and chews with his mouth open and travels and France and tells people to "Speak English!". Americans are just ruder in general and I'm an American.

Even though I may not find it pleasing, can I ask what your hypothesis is of why American Feminists are so rabid and violent in your opinion?

[OICurready4me]

DRAGON LADY. You are correct to say that things should not be black and white. I agree. Perhaps the black has to hit the white before we reach an agreement.

My parents taught me to be respectful of all women. The education that I received said that all women were fragile, should be considered beautiful and should be honoured. I was taught well. (I honoured many of the gentler sex, indeed.)

My life experience has shown me otherwise.

I remember visiting New England and the Big Apple in the same two week business trip.
I was given the finger by a lady who I let pass in front of my car. Later that week, I opened a store door at Bloomingale's in New York to have that same door shoved in my face.

When I come Stateside, (not so much the case in continental Europe at this writing), I am careful not to open doors to anyone..

I attribute that to a bad 14 days...still I do wonder....the two incidents left me with a bad taste in my mouth...and a reasoning that when coming Stateside...one has to be careful...handling women.

This women's violence is due to poor sexual release or a feeling of not wanting to be women?


One thing that you should be aware of, SirFox, is that you were in the Northeast for that 14 day visit. It is known that us here in the Northeast walk, talk and work faster than the rest of the country and probably the rest of the world. Because of that, when we come across people from the other regions of our country or from other countries, many times our behaviour is viewed as rude, which, in most cases it is. To the people that live up here, we are used to the way people interact with one another but at the same time, I see so often things that make me cringe. Many times, it is just the out and out disrespect that Northeasterners have for others time. Many of them they are in a rush to go nowhere. Cutting people off, pushing people out of the way to get in front, feeling they deserve to be first, at all times. It really sickens me when I see that. I think that is what you came across, Fox, but not all Americans are that pushy. When I go to the south, it is more laid back, the people are very friendly and helpful. In many cases, when I said I was from the Northeast, they say "Oh" and they pretty much know the rest. We are not all like that but the stereotypical person from this area can be a real pain in the ass to others around them. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience when visiting this area but I can tell you, I know of alot of us NE'ers that a good, kind folks that would love to show you around without pushing your around. Let me know when you want to the grand tour!

[wisconsin(m)]

I can cite several examples of manly misbehavior. I'm sickened by it. I was taught by our Mother to be gentlemanly to everyone. As SirFox noted, over time I have become jaded by the behavior of women. Growing up, I was innured to the rudeness of men, but it wasn't as prevalent among women as it's become.

Rudeness is inexcusable regarless of the offender's gender. I just think that when it comes to rude women, they can't expect to have it both ways. Absent a provocation, I will always treat a woman like a lady and would not have it any other way.
But it's high time that good behavior was demanded of so many men, too.




Sorry Dude......... your winning is just not cutting it... here you go, the universal sign of stroking myself again.. :sc

[magscribe]

There are men and women who are sexist, still. But at the end of the day, we're getting better.

Men and women are different. Their brains are wired differently and they don't always track together. I don't know that one is better than the other, just different. Is a penis better than a vagina? Yes, if you're writing your name in the snow, not so much if you're giving birth.

I respect the abilities of women — I've been lucky to manage both men and women in my career and while I see some general differences, the combination tends to give the best results.

I don't think women are any less capable than men — although your mileage may vary on physical tasks — and should be paid equally for equal work and treated in all ways as the equals they are.

And yes, I'm human and male. I'm going to look at your breasts. I'm going to try not to be a big jerk about it and look you in the eye when we talk, but yeah, I will discreetly peak at your breasts and your butt if I can do it without making an ass of myself. As we are all sexual beings, I would hope women check out my ass and anything else they might find of interest on me as well.

But while your boobs might get my initial attention, if there isn't a brain and strong, confident sense of self attached to them, you probably won't keep my attention.

[OnceAKing]

If you were able to swoon M with your supposed bullshit, then CONGRATULATIONS...you are good at bullshitting...:yks

lol she said, "Well, at least he's good at sumpthin." dang I'd rather it have been at least he's good FOR sumpthin but I'll take what I can get I reckon. :lmao

[ladyyhawk]

i should of known that the "F" word would get ugly.

Personally just means that she or I are confident. You can still take control in bed but I will let you know that I want it. and yes I want it a lot I hope you will be able to keep up. If not, :di then i will wait for you.

[OnceAKing]

I think there's lots of met that have expressed a negative perception of feminism. I haven't seen any guys come into the thread shouting "Girl Power!". Anyway most of the men here all have thier own minds and are not going to use a feminist platform as a way to get lucky or make us "swoon".

LOL. A name you could get behind??

Who said you have to apologize for being male or burn your jockstrap? If you're interests lie in fairness for everyone you have the same fundamental beliefs as I do.

I am amazed at the emotion that the word evokes, even when a definition is supplied. I find it very interesting.

LMAO sorta like, My mind's made up...don't confuse me with the facts...

I agree Sneaky, I really don't understand all the fear of the word or the woman...

Men of the World, embrace your feminist side!

[MCat]

lol she said, "Well, at least he's good at sumpthin." dang I'd rather it have been at least he's good FOR sumpthin but I'll take what I can get I reckon. :lmao

Hey Cowboy....you're good at sumpthin and good for sumpthin...you're just good all the way around.....smooch

[Midwest girl]

:ok

ok jm, I usually read you over coffee..but was busy at the office this morning and just now getting to this...fantastic, you go well with wine in the evening too!!!!!!! LMFAO

[lukka]

So what the Hell's that supposed to mean!!!:sc

[Midwest girl]

So what the Hell's that supposed to mean!!!:sc

are you asking me?? I just meant that I enjoy jm's posts....

[lukka]

are you asking me?? I just meant that I enjoy jm's posts....
No, no!! SORRY!!! Just posting to the orginal.

[MCat]

uhhh lol ok... :sc

uhh wat waz it u prefer?????:sc


You having trouble concentrating Tiger?

Tippin back a few too many will blur your vision......

[Midwest girl]

No, no!! SORRY!!! Just posting to the orginal.

you mean you dont understand what the "F" word means??? may i refer you back to my first post where you can find the definition clearly stated straight from the dictionary...

[dashslow]

Do you really think that goes on here? In a place like this? But seriously, I don't find it difficult to believe that there are an abundance of males quite sympathetic to the true "feminist" causes. No I'm not talking about the extremists but more in line with what Sneaky is referring to in her posts...I know I am and it's no bullshit for me...besides I don't need to, M has already been swooned by the rest of my bullshit.

So,. . .
thank you bullshitter deluxe, i guess.

[dashslow]

Why not make a thread? It would make an interesting discussion, and I'll save my thoughts for there...Keep up with the unfiltered opinion. I think it would be much preferred. Most of the women here are far too intelligent to fall for any 'swooning'.

Oooooh..I hope they heard that.

Maybe I will start a thread and call it the "What is Really Said in the Locker Room" Thread.

Jesus! I used the word 'swoon' like twice in my life and now it's really kicking my ass.

I'll just call it the 'Swooning Bullshitters' Thread.

[dashslow]

Ah, BTW. . .

There is the definition of feminism and there is the perception of feminism. Why are they not quite congruent? Sure, tell me it's just my perception, but I maintain it is a widely held observation. Don't agree? Count how many people get in line to kick my ass this time. (I think I should get a little credit for taking the unpopular side and taking the flack.)

ps. Ironically, this is my 150th post in the Married and FLIRTING Chat. Wanna swoon?

[leighm]

Would not consider myself a feminist but do agree with some of their beliefs. Only a few though ie: equal pay for equal work. I like it when a man opens a door for me etc, but would not expect him to.

[Brink]

Ah, BTW. . .

There is the definition of feminism and there is the perception of feminism. Why are they not quite congruent? Sure, tell me it's just my perception, but I maintain it is a widely held observation. Don't agree? Count how many people get in line to kick my ass this time. (I think I should get a little credit for taking the unpopular side and taking the flack.)

ps. Ironically, this is my 150th post in the Married and FLIRTING Chat. Wanna swoon?

Well, we need to get to know you better to know how literal you are being, and vice-versa, but since taking the unpopular view is not that uncommon around here, no…you can’t claim anything! Don’t let it bother you – many will value your openness whether they agree with you or not. Deep discussions don’t always get off the ground here, so just taking part will be appreciated....And you will learn about things here a whole lot quicker by becoming involved!

Start the locker-room thread and indulge us with how you feel – you might have a valid point there, and being outspoken will capture a lot of female attention - if that really is the point of these discussions! I tend to think that men need to be more open here, not afraid that their opinions will be coupled with any ulterior motives. Perception is what makes us human, and sets us apart from other creatures. What a mundane existence it would be if we were all restricted to the same definitions!

[SirFox]

While, in general I do agree that Canadians are by FAR more polite than Americans, the discripiton of a "Rabid, Violent, less laid back American Feminist" is kinda...a little bit of a stretch for me. I'm sure they exist, but so do the loud mouth american chouvinist man that grabs women inappropriatly and chews with his mouth open and travels and France and tells people to "Speak English!". Americans are just ruder in general and I'm an American.

Even though I may not find it pleasing, can I ask what your hypothesis is of why American Feminists are so rabid and violent in your opinion?

SNEAKY, HELLO!


Many societies are routed in conservatism of some sort of another. Many of those societies have histories that date back hundreds of years with social rules that still exist and predominate life. I suggest that men and women are by their very nature, conservative animals.

America is a new country that has merged many cultures, languages, religions and societal manners into one nation. The US came to exist first through major European emigration waves, and then later with non-European roots. With each new immigration tide came ways of doing things, ways of thought that needed adaptation in the new country. The idea of the founders of America was, ideally, to forge a new identity. In spite of that wish to create something new that did not stench of the old World mindset, (notably the opposites, the haughty, aristocratic and the elite, on the one hand, the illiterate and poverty unable to gain a better status in life, on the other), certain stigmas remained, notably that of sex roles. Women were assigned to their house where they were the queens of motherhood and the kitchen. Men tended the fields or later worked in factories. They did the physically hard labour, expected their women to serve them. Life was extremely difficult from the onset.

Women’s roles were strictly defined as were men’s. Men had a right to batter their wives and their children. Very few divorces existed. People battled to remain alive and many peoples’ concerns dealt with putting food on the table. Women were often pregnant 10 times during their lifetimes as birth control was not well known. Half of those children might survive to be 18 years of old. Many women died in childbirth as a result of ignorance and poor sanitation.

Sex was regulated by the Church. It is estimated that out of 365 days, one could have sex only 45 days out of the Year. Women had to attend Church, were often seated with their children on one side of the aisles there. They were controlled by “norms” that came down from their parents. Generation after generation, women did not have the control of their bodies, nor of their desires. Any female that wanted to do something outside those accepted rules were placed aside.

The predominant view was that women during the Middle Ages, (and probably until World War I) were on this Earth to be mechanisms to create new life to carry on the patriarch’s name sake, the idea that the male species was superior. That notion came from the idea that the male was physically stronger: he was able to carry loads that a female could not. Many ideas about the role of the male and the female are routed in the legacy of Europe and the Bible, the Torah and the Coran.

American women who decided to embrace the feminist movement wanted to shake off manners that existed in America from the predominantly old world mentality. So fearful that they were to return to the old ways that American women became violent their quests from “the governing male tyrants.” American women took it to heart that things would change. In contrast to their Italian and French sisters, the feminist movement was a fad.

Women have gained a more open role. Man’s role in contrast has not changed much apart from the fact that he now has to negotiate more with women, and cannot as liberally “order them around”.


The question of “rudeness” is answered in another post.

[dashslow]

Well, we need to get to know you better to know how literal you are being, and vice-versa, but since taking the unpopular view is not that uncommon around here, no…you can’t claim anything! Don’t let it bother you – many will value your openness whether they agree with you or not. Deep discussions don’t always get off the ground here, so just taking part will be appreciated....And you will learn about things here a whole lot quicker by becoming involved!

Start the locker-room thread and indulge us with how you feel – you might have a valid point there, and being outspoken will capture a lot of female attention - if that really is the point of these discussions! I tend to think that men need to be more open here, not afraid that their opinions will be coupled with any ulterior motives. Perception is what makes us human, and sets us apart from other creatures. What a mundane existence it would be if we were all restricted to the same definitions!

Thanks Brink. It's time for me to move aside and allow the thread to grow other branches. Men probably shouldn't dominate this thread like we do most other things anyway. :sc:sc

That was a joke.

Really.

[Sneaky]

Thanks Brink. It's time for me to move aside and allow the thread to grow other branches. Men probably shouldn't dominate this thread like we do most other things anyway. :sc:sc

That was a joke.

Really.
LOL. It's ok. Some Feminists even laugh sometimes.:crs

[Sneaky]

SNEAKY, HELLO!


Many societies are routed in conservatism of some sort of another. Many of those societies have histories that date back hundreds of years with social rules that still exist and predominate life. I suggest that men and women are by their very nature, conservative animals.

America is a new country that has merged many cultures, languages, religions and societal manners into one nation. The US came to exist first through major European emigration waves, and then later with non-European roots. With each new immigration tide came ways of doing things, ways of thought that needed adaptation in the new country. The idea of the founders of America was, ideally, to forge a new identity. In spite of that wish to create something new that did not stench of the old World mindset, (notably the opposites, the haughty, aristocratic and the elite, on the one hand, the illiterate and poverty unable to gain a better status in life, on the other), certain stigmas remained, notably that of sex roles. Women were assigned to their house where they were the queens of motherhood and the kitchen. Men tended the fields or later worked in factories. They did the physically hard labour, expected their women to serve them. Life was extremely difficult from the onset.

Women’s roles were strictly defined as were men’s. Men had a right to batter their wives and their children. Very few divorces existed. People battled to remain alive and many peoples’ concerns dealt with putting food on the table. Women were often pregnant 10 times during their lifetimes as birth control was not well known. Half of those children might survive to be 18 years of old. Many women died in childbirth as a result of ignorance and poor sanitation.

Sex was regulated by the Church. It is estimated that out of 365 days, one could have sex only 45 days out of the Year. Women had to attend Church, were often seated with their children on one side of the aisles there. They were controlled by “norms” that came down from their parents. Generation after generation, women did not have the control of their bodies, nor of their desires. Any female that wanted to do something outside those accepted rules were placed aside.

The predominant view was that women during the Middle Ages, (and probably until World War I) were on this Earth to be mechanisms to create new life to carry on the patriarch’s name sake, the idea that the male species was superior. That notion came from the idea that the male was physically stronger: he was able to carry loads that a female could not. Many ideas about the role of the male and the female are routed in the legacy of Europe and the Bible, the Torah and the Coran.

American women who decided to embrace the feminist movement wanted to shake off manners that existed in America from the predominantly old world mentality. So fearful that they were to return to the old ways that American women became violent their quests from “the governing male tyrants.” American women took it to heart that things would change. In contrast to their Italian and French sisters, the feminist movement was a fad.

Women have gained a more open role. Man’s role in contrast has not changed much apart from the fact that he now has to negotiate more with women, and cannot as liberally “order them around”.


The question of “rudeness” is answered in another post.

Thanks Sir Fox. You're post shows me that even though you don't really like certain feminists you understand and sympathize with thier cause and where it came from. And I agree that being rude doesn't help anyones cause at all. Nice post. Thank you.

[Sneaky]

Ah, BTW. . .

There is the definition of feminism and there is the perception of feminism. Why are they not quite congruent? Sure, tell me it's just my perception, but I maintain it is a widely held observation. Don't agree? Count how many people get in line to kick my ass this time. (I think I should get a little credit for taking the unpopular side and taking the flack.)

ps. Ironically, this is my 150th post in the Married and FLIRTING Chat. Wanna swoon?
I agree with you. LOTS of posts in this thread with people saying they believe in equal pay for equal work and womens equaliity but they don't consider themselves feminists. :sc Interesting & a bit...distrubing. To me anyway.

[Sneaky]

Maybe I will start a thread and call it the "What is Really Said in the Locker Room" Thread.

Jesus! I used the word 'swoon' like twice in my life and now it's really kicking my ass.

I'll just call it the 'Swooning Bullshitters' Thread.
What does it take to make a feminist "swoon"?
(I have no idea. It sounds like a good joke though. I just need a punch line. LOL.)

[Shawn]

I agree with you. LOTS of posts in this thread with people saying they believe in equal pay for equal work and womens equaliity but they don't consider themselves feminists. :sc Interesting & a bit...distrubing. To me anyway.

And here my day was going great.. till I find out I am a Feminist.... crap.

[Shawn]

What does it take to make a feminist "swoon"?
(I have no idea. It sounds like a good joke though. I just need a punch line. LOL.)

A C.E.O. paycheck ?

[Sneaky]

And here my day was going great.. till I find out I am a Feminist.... crap.
I know! Welcome to the cause my friend. Here is your "Vag Pin".

[Shawn]

I know! Welcome to the cause my friend. Here is your "Vag Pin".

Sa-Weet.... wait .. is this a scratch and sniff?

[Sneaky]

Sa-Weet.... wait .. is this a scratch and sniff?

Give me the pin back Shawn. Somewhere along the way a mistake has been made. I think it was soposed to be a fist pin or something.

Ah, keep it. A couple of feminists smiling never hurt anyone.