Men Can't Win With Women

[PowWhackIt]

If you work too hard, there is never any time for her.
If you don't work enough, you're a good-for-nothing bum.

If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, it's exploitation.
If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your ass and find something better.

If you get a promotion ahead of her, it's favoritism.
If she gets a job ahead of you, it's equal opportunity.

If you mention how nice she looks, it's sexual harassment.
If you keep quiet, it's male indifference.

If you cry, you're a wimp.
If you don't, you're insensitive.

If you make a decision without consulting her, you're a chauvinist pig, you bastard.
If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman.

If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy, that's domination.
If she asks you, it's a favor.

If you try to keep yourself in shape, you're vain.
If you don't, you're a slob.

If you buy her flowers, you're after something.
If you don't, you're not thoughtful.

If you're proud of your achievements, you're an egotist.
If you're not, you're not ambitious.

If she has a headache, she's tired.
If you have a headache, you don't love her anymore, and you must be sleeping around.

[jmsmith12345]

Thanks for post #50,001 and one that will help men not get laid...you have done a public service for celibacy. :55

[Han Solo]

Is anyone else thinkin' that the title of this thread might be Greek for "Democratic Oath"?? :sc

[Yankee]

If you DON'T think of it as women vs. men . . .

We all win.

[jmsmith12345]

Is anyone else thinkin' that the title of this thread might be Greek for "Democratic Oath"?? :sc

By Greek, do you mean Democrats are now fucking us in the ass too?

[Charmed]

Oh great, I can tell this is gonna be bitch about women day. NO week..... Month?

[OnceAKing]

Frosty Flakes anyone?...It's too early for popcorn...

[Yankee]

Oh great, I can tell this is gonna be bitch about women day. NO week..... Month?

Not me baby . . . I'm an Independent.

[Charmed]

Not me baby . . . I'm an Independent.

You are just saying that cuz you want make up sex.

[Han Solo]

Oh great, I can tell this is gonna be bitch about women day. NO week..... Month?
:sc I thought that was everyday???? :sg

[Han Solo]

Not me baby . . . I'm an Independent.
Said the Wallowing, LONELY guy from 9 hours ago ...:rolleyes:

[Nice]

Ohhhhhhhh...gotta love make up sex. Hmmm...gives me an idea:sc
You are just saying that cuz you want make up sex.

[Yankee]

Said the Wallowing, LONELY guy from 9 hours ago ...:rolleyes:

See baby?

I was wallowing and lonely.

[Han Solo]

See baby?

I was wallowing and lonely.
And somehow this is something you want to admit to WHY again?? :confused:

[Charmed]

Dammit han because he loves me! Because he Misses me when I'm not here. AND he wants some lovin.

And somehow this is something you want to admit to WHY again?? :confused:

[Charmed]

See baby?

I was wallowing and lonely.

I missed you too... I'm sowwy I wasn't here for you.

[Yankee]

Dammit han because he loves me! Because he Misses me when I'm not here. AND he wants some lovin.


AND when I'm NOT wallowing and lonely . . .

"When I left you I was but the learner . . . Now I am the master."

[Yankee]

I missed you too... I'm sowwy I wasn't here for you.

I love you.

[Han Solo]

Is this really happening?? :confused:

[leggy4]

Han, are those spurs I am seeing???:)

[Tndream]

If you work too hard, You will be tired
If you don't work enough, Your paycheck will be smaller, but youll have more energy

If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, At least she has a job in tough times
If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay,You are working at an honest job


If you get a promotion ahead of her, you should go out an celebrate
If she gets a job ahead of you, You should go out and celebrate.

If you mention how nice she looks, She should thank you gratefully
If you keep quiet, Your asking for trouble

If you cry, You should use kleenex to blow your nose, not your shirt
If you don't, Well, you dont have to show emotion to be human

If you make a decision without consulting her, Your a human and some choices need to be made NOW
If she makes a decision without consulting you, She is human and needed to make a choice NOW

If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy, its part of life
If she asks you, It is a part of life

If you try to keep yourself in shape, you should be congratulated
If you don't, Then there is probably a reason for it

If you buy her flowers, Youll get positive attention
If you don't, Then you probably can't afford to

If you're proud of your achievements, Your only human and should be proud of yourself
If you're not, Your not a braggard

If she has a headache, She should take some tylenol
If you have a headache, You should take some tylenol

[jmsmith12345]

I think this thread needs a Barry White song to set the mood.

[Yankee]

Is this really happening?? :confused:


I'm too sexy for this post.

Too sexy for post.

Too sexy . . . the most

[Tndream]

I think this thread needs a Barry White song to set the mood.

I think this thread needs a shot of insulin.

[Sinster]

(FeIsTy FaV) I missed you too... I'm sowwy I wasn't here for you. (Yankee) I love you. I'm sure I saw this on another three threads.....LOL

Oh... men can win with women, its called selective hearing, I have mine so highly trained I can ignore an explosion......:ok

[redcat]

I'm sure I saw this on another three threads.....LOL

Oh... men can win with women, its called selective hearing, I have mine so highly trained I can ignore an explosion......:ok


Do you have the rest of the technique mastered, too? Appearing to pay attention, making the proper responses....:D

[Sinster]

Do you have the rest of the technique mastered, too? Appearing to pay attention, making the proper responses....:D
LOL sometimes I miss things and get in trouble but most of the time I can register a question....I like my happy place ....:sc

[Han Solo]

I'm sure I saw this on another three threads.....LOL

Oh... men can win with women, its called selective hearing, I have mine so highly trained I can ignore an explosion......:ok


THREE?? LOL....Hell if it was ONLY three I'd be far less nauseous :ok

[sassynsweet]

THREE?? LOL....Hell if it was ONLY three I'd be far less nauseous :ok
well, master, maybe you need to teach them alternative methods for hijacking? it's time they expanded their skills :)

[Han Solo]

well, master, maybe you need to teach them alternative methods for hijacking? it's time they expanded their skills :)
Oh, I've tried......tried to show them how to properly get in a big fight, how to take a thread about nothing and turn it into a post marathon (see Fisting thread)........but there's no hope for them...it all turns back to the same Ol' Schmoop. Personally I think I would like to see the two of them do a little more fighting back and forth..that's way more entertaining........then again, my tastes are not exactly normal :sg

[jmsmith12345]

Oh, I've tried......tried to show them how to properly get in a big fight, how to take a thread about nothing and turn it into a post marathon (see Fisting thread)........but there's no hope for them...it all turns back to the same Ol' Schmoop. Personally I think I would like to see the two of them do a little more fighting back and forth..that's way more entertaining........then again, my tastes are not exactly normal :sg

And the understatement of the year goes to....(drum roll)....Captain Obvious! :55

[Han Solo]

And the understatement of the year goes to....(drum roll)....Captain Obvious! :55
I resemble that remark;)............and I prefer the name Captain Fantastic btw :)

[jmsmith12345]

I resemble that remark;)............and I prefer the name Captain Fantastic btw :)

Wasn't the last guy named that gay too? What a coincidence. :))

[Sinster]

THREE?? LOL....Hell if it was ONLY three I'd be far less nauseous :ok
Oh thank god, I thought was havingDeja Vu.....

[StripPoker]

I guess it all depends on what you consider winning

[Han Solo]

Wasn't the last guy named that gay too? What a coincidence. :))
Sorry, but some of the men are quite TASTY around here :lf





(OK, I have to throw out a post like that every once in awhile to confuse anyone new that may be wandered onto the site..........Yankee actually thought I was a switch hitter there for awhile .....he only started paying attention to me in the middle of one of my Cy hijacks :D ...he was confused for about a week about the whole affair)

[Tndream]

Sorry, but some of the men are quite TASTY around here :lf





(OK, I have to throw out a post like that every once in awhile to confuse anyone new that may be wandered onto the site..........Yankee actually thought I was a switch hitter there for awhile .....he only started paying attention to me in the middle of one of my Cy hijacks :D ...he was confused for about a week about the whole affair)

:lmao :lmao :lmao

pfft,
aint hard to confuse him, least not from what I seen

[Han Solo]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

pfft,
aint hard to confuse him, least not from what I seen
LOL....yeah....for about a week straight when anyone tried to explain that it wasn't true he kept saying "Really"? ..."Are you sure"?? :confused:

He's so cute that I just gotta love him though............but not in THAT way!;)

[blu]

i dont feel that i have to win. im quite happy to break even. i have known some very good women, and its always been a pleasure learning from them

[cherri]

You are not going to win the "War", so pick and choose your battles wisely! Use strategy, sacrafice, stamina, and seperation when needed. Just remember, a woman won't have any respect for you if you don't stand up for yourself, your values, your morals, and your beliefs.

[Charmed]

THREE?? LOL....Hell if it was ONLY three I'd be far less nauseous :ok

BITE ME!

[Han Solo]

BITE ME!
:D I was wondering when you were gonna stumble in here and find that lil' Gem :)

[Charmed]

LOL....yeah....for about a week straight when anyone tried to explain that it wasn't true he kept saying "Really"? ..."Are you sure"?? :confused:

He's so cute that I just gotta love him though............but not in THAT way!;)

hahahahah SNORT hahahahaha

The first time you posted on his page he sent me a PM and said ARE YOU SURE HE ISN'T?

He is soooooo cute :)

[Charmed]

:D I was wondering when you were gonna stumble in here and find that lil' Gem :)


Ha! It's been hell trying to get to this place lately..... The poor lil guy was really missing me last night and when I finally showed we kinda..... well..... said GOODNIGHT...
He asks like he has some bonehead (who obviously knows nothing about women) giving him advice..

[Han Solo]

hahahahah SNORT hahahahaha

The first time you posted on his page he sent me a PM and said ARE YOU SURE HE ISN'T?

He is soooooo cute :)
Yeah....I heard through the grapevin he had some questions...so I figured I'd leave a few messages for him to see if he would squirm or not :D


Ahhhh.....good times. Good times.

He is such a lovable little fella though...I miss him today!

[Han Solo]

Ha! It's been hell trying to get to this place lately..... The poor lil guy was really missing me last night and when I finally showed we kinda..... well..... said GOODNIGHT...
He asks like he has some bonehead (who obviously knows nothing about women) giving him advice..

*snicker* She shoots, she scores!! LOL

[Charmed]

Dammit Han..... Stop it!..... He was perfect before you started putting ideas in his head:nu


Oh he is going home to Lizzy today.....He might be a lil pissy when he arrives tonight.

[Han Solo]

Dammit Han..... Stop it!..... He was perfect before you started putting ideas in his head:nu


Oh he is going home to Lizzy today.....He might be a lil pissy when he arrives tonight.
Well in my defense..........he CLAIMS to be not following my mentoring!! :la

He'll be pissy??...............Sa-weet...I like him better when he's a little spunky! :)

[Charmed]

Well in my defense..........he CLAIMS to be not following my mentoring!! :la


Cough** BULLSHIT** Cough

He'll be pissy??...............Sa-weet...I like him better when he's a little spunky! :)


GOD not even I can let that one go.........

His spunk is one of my favorite things :ok

[redcat]

LOL sometimes I miss things and get in trouble but most of the time I can register a question....I like my happy place ....:sc


I thought that was something totally different. So, it truly is in control..:sc

[Han Solo]

GOD not even I can let that one go.........

His spunk is one of my favorite things :ok

#1...he says himself that he will not listen to me!!

and #2............Eeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

[Charmed]

#1...he says himself that he will not listen to me!!

and #2............Eeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!



Ha! are you grossed out? Pinky swear?

[Yankee]

GOD not even I can let that one go.........

His spunk is one of my favorite things :ok


AHEM . . . . .

I see I've been a topic of discussion.

[Han Solo]

Ha! are you grossed out? Pinky swear?
Ohhhhhhhhhhh....you people are freaking me out!!!....Yesterday, I told little Soloette that I would take her outside after I got some more work done..........she replied by saying: "Pinky Swear"???................I was like WTF??? WHERE did you get THAT from?? So the only thing I could think to do was wash her mouth out with soap :sg

[Han Solo]

AHEM . . . . .

I see I've been a topic of discussion.
You are never far from our hearts!! :)

*cough* *cough*.......Ummm, oh yeah...............

how's about I just step back and let HER handle the greetings...sorry! :sg

[Charmed]

AHEM . . . . .

I see I've been a topic of discussion.
Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hi Punkin! :sng

[Yankee]

Honest . . . I love ya'll. :sng


Her the most though!

C'mere baby!

:sng

[Charmed]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh....you people are freaking me out!!!....Yesterday, I told little Soloette that I would take her outside after I got some more work done..........she replied by saying: "Pinky Swear"???................I was like WTF??? WHERE did you get THAT from?? So the only thing I could think to do was wash her mouth out with soap :sg


hahahahahahh YOU DID NOT! I bet you grinned and kissed the top of her adorable head :)

[Yankee]

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hi Punkin! :sng

I'm the luckiest guy here.

Pinky swear.

[Charmed]

Honest . . . I love ya'll. :sng


Her the most though!

C'mere baby!

:sng


MMWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

What the heck are you doing here? Where are the boys!


I''m happy to see ya :)

[Han Solo]

Honest . . . I love ya'll. :sng


Her the most though!

C'mere baby!
:sng


So you're gonna skip the "And Bend Over" part?? I thought you were practicing that while you were away?? :sc...........Ok, fine!..do it YOUR way :rolleyes:

[Charmed]

I'm the luckiest guy here.

Pinky swear.

GUT Are you asking me to show your av?

[gdg]

Hmmm, this thread was about men not winning with women. I guess that is why they turn to other men? So glad there is no jealousy here.

[Charmed]

So you're gonna skip the "And Bend Over" part?? I thought you were practicing that while you were away?? :sc...........Ok, fine!..do it YOUR way :rolleyes:

hahahahah SHHHHHHHHHHH don't do that....... I'm trying to keep a straight face!

[Han Solo]

hahahahahahh YOU DID NOT! I bet you grinned and kissed the top of her adorable head :)
Well OK, I didn't got that far....but I did put the Parental Locks on the Disney Channel and Nickelodeon until I find where it came from :nu

[Han Solo]

Hmmm, this thread was about men not winning with women. I guess that is why they turn to other men? So glad there is no jealousy here.
Well we just figured we better post a whole bunch in here to distract from the original post so it doesn't turn violent in here....we're just providing a public service to the site is all......

[Yankee]

AHHHHHHHHH . . . .

Had to get comfy with a new av.

Han likes it.

[gdg]

Well we just figured we better post a whole bunch in here to distract from the original post so it doesn't turn violent in here....we're just providing a public service to the site is all......

Oh I can see you are servicing the public alright, certain genders more then others. :sc

[Charmed]

AHHHHHHHHH . . . .

Had to get comfy with a new av.

Han likes it.

oOOoOoOoooOOoo Nice!

Wanna roll in the hay?

[Yankee]

MMWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

What the heck are you doing here? Where are the boys!


I''m happy to see ya :)

One ran down to his meme's . . . the other is involved in Leggo Star Wars
PS2.

[Han Solo]

AHHHHHHHHH . . . .

Had to get comfy with a new av.

Han likes it.
yeah...the further your hands are from your ...uhh.....PLOW.....the more I like them ;)

[Yankee]

oOOoOoOoooOOoo Nice!

Wanna roll in the hay?


MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmm

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Han Solo]

Oh I can see you are servicing the public alright, certain genders more then others. :sc

I'm an EOE...just trying to be politically correct is all :)

[Yankee]

yeah...the further your hands are from your ...uhh.....PLOW.....the more I like them ;)

You like my spunk.

It's on record.

[Charmed]

EOE My ass....... You swing both ways and you know it....You like the odds of getting laid..

[gdg]

I'm an EOE...just trying to be politically correct is all :)

I see, turning over a new leaf? Becoming liberal now? Sneaky must have rubbed on you.....I mean rubbed off on you.

[Charmed]

One ran down to his meme's . . . the other is involved in Leggo Star Wars
PS2.

C'mon.. You have your boys liking that stuff too?

[Han Solo]

You like my spunk.

It's on record.
That is SOOOO not the quote Mr. Twiststhingstosuithim :rolleyes:

[Han Solo]

EOE My ass....... You swing both ways and you know it....You like the odds of getting laid..
Well if you would quit draining our young lad here of his daily fluids I would stand half a chance!! Sheesh..

[Han Solo]

I see, turning over a new leaf? Becoming liberal now? Sneaky must have rubbed on you.....I mean rubbed off on you.

She does have certain charms that make me consider certain things........well least that's what I pretend to do in order to get my Stimulus Package :ok

[Laurie Ann]

Well, I, for one, agree with the posters original post.

Unfortunately, we, as a society, have allowed the two different sexes to develop into one ball of mush. And now men don't know which way to turn ...

Ish!

What was ever wrong with the days the men were the "breadwinners" and the women kept the home and the children?

What was ever wrong with allowing the man to feel some sort of accomplishment for the way the family was provided for?

Why was there SUCH a great need to strip him of that??

Why was it that women chose to allow some stranger to raise her children rather than bringing them up with a true sense of "family"?

What was ever wrong with the woman waiting at the front door (with just an apron on?) for her tired husband to come home from work so she could spoil him??? And along that same line ... what was ever wrong with the man telling her how to do so??

Men have become so wishy-washy now because they don't know which way to turn or what role to fill.

And women have just become bitchier trying to fill all of the roles they have chosen to take on.

Before flying off the handle about this, please stop. Take a look around at your friends, your neighbors and other members of your family. Read the front page of your local newspaper ... do you see a change in the family unit?

Does it seem to you that we, as a society, are growing and moving in a positive direction?

If so, please forward me the directions to your neighborhood as from where I am sitting (Chicago), I am watching the steadfast decline of the American family unit.

Just something to think about ...

Or not.
:spbx:

[Yankee]

That is SOOOO not the quote Mr. Twiststhingstosuithim :rolleyes:

Lesse

I'm a cute little guy

I'm always in your heart

I'm full of spunk


You got a man crush dude.

[Big O]

Well, I, for one, agree with the posters original post.

Unfortunately, we, as a society, have allowed the two different sexes to develop into one ball of mush. And now men don't know which way to turn ...

Ish!

What was ever wrong with the days the men were the "breadwinners" and the women kept the home and the children?

What was ever wrong with allowing the man to feel some sort of accomplishment for the way the family was provided for?

Why was there SUCH a great need to strip him of that??

Why was it that women chose to allow some stranger to raise her children rather than bringing them up with a true sense of "family"?

What was ever wrong with the woman waiting at the front door (with just an apron on?) for her tired husband to come home from work so she could spoil him??? And along that same line ... what was ever wrong with the man telling her how to do so??

Men have become so wishy-washy now because they don't know which way to turn or what role to fill.

And women have just become bitchier trying to fill all of the roles they have chosen to take on.

Before flying off the handle about this, please stop. Take a look around at your friends, your neighbors and other members of your family. Read the front page of your local newspaper ... do you see a change in the family unit?

Does it seem to you that we, as a society, are growing and moving in a positive direction?

If so, please forward me the directions to your neighborhood as from where I am sitting (Chicago), I am watching the steadfast decline of the American family unit.

Just something to think about ...

Or not.
:spbx:

Well maybe if it didn't take two paychecks now to keep a family above water things might be different

[Sneaky]

What was ever wrong with the days the men were the "breadwinners" and the women kept the home and the children?
Nothing if it's the woman's choice. However, if she felt the desire to pursue a career or follow a calling besides keeping house, doing his laundry & having babies she should have those options as well.

What was ever wrong with allowing the man to feel some sort of accomplishment for the way the family was provided for?

Why was there SUCH a great need to strip him of that??
And a woman working outside the home strips him of his manhood??? A woman should stay home and not follow her ambition if she has it because his widdow ego might huwt a widdow? If he's threatenend by me wanting to contribute to our life and to the world then he's too sensitive for me. Women not being able to provide for themselves also forced them to have to stay in abusive and unhappy situations just to keep a roof over their head. Their entire life and destiny was in the control of their husbands.

Why was it that women chose to allow some stranger to raise her children rather than bringing them up with a true sense of "family"???
WHOA!!!!! Are you suggesting that women that need to work outside the home or have careers by choice are not raising thier children with a true sense of family?

What was ever wrong with the woman waiting at the front door (with just an apron on?) for her tired husband to come home from work so she could spoil him??? And along that same line ... what was ever wrong with the man telling her how to do so?
Nothing. If that was what she wanted. Some women want to also have acomplishments of thier own. Some don't want to sit around the house waiting for hubby to come home and hope that he'll pay attention and provide her with all the sense of ackomplishment she needs. Some women had to take a crap load of valium and alchohol to survive that.

Men have become so wishy-washy now because they don't know which way to turn or what role to fill.
What do you base this on? I know plenty of men that are not wishy washy.

And women have just become bitchier trying to fill all of the roles they have chosen to take on.
No. The roles I choose to take on don't make me bitchier. Just this crap that suggests that having ambition and drive make me bitchy.

Before flying off the handle about this, please stop. Take a look around at your friends, your neighbors and other members of your family. Read the front page of your local newspaper ... do you see a change in the family unit?

Does it seem to you that we, as a society, are growing and moving in a positive direction?

Society is changing for sure. Who exactly are you suggesting is the cause of it? Women wanting to be able to have opportunites available to them? All of working women?? Ones that work out of choice or necessity? Or the "wishy washy" men that "allow" this to happen??

[Ally]

THANK YOU SNEAKY!!!

You expressed (once again) EVERYTHING I would have liked to say. I just couldn't find the words...I was too busy trying to pick my jaw up from the floor.

[Sneaky]

THANK YOU SNEAKY!!!

You expressed (once again) EVERYTHING I would have liked to say. I just couldn't find the words...I was too busy trying to pick my jaw up from the floor.
Yeah. Seriously....I don't get it.....it's INCREDIBLE to me.

[Lacey]

Nothing if it's the woman's choice. However, if she felt the desire to pursue a career or follow a calling besides keeping house, doing his laundry & having babies she should have those options as well.


And a woman working outside the home strips him of his manhood??? A woman should stay home and not follow her ambition if she has it because his widdow ego might huwt a widdow? If he's threatenend by me wanting to contribute to our life and to the world then he's too sensitive for me. Women not being able to provide for themselves also forced them to have to stay in abusive and unhappy situations just to keep a roof over their head. Their entire life and destiny was in the control of their husbands.


WHOA!!!!! Are you suggesting that women that need to work outside the home or have careers by choice are not raising thier children with a true sense of family?


Nothing. If that was what she wanted. Some women want to also have acomplishments of thier own. Some don't want to sit around the house waiting for hubby to come home and hope that he'll pay attention and provide her with all the sense of ackomplishment she needs. Some women had to take a crap load of valium and alchohol to survive that.


What do you base this on? I know plenty of men that are not wishy washy.


No. The roles I choose to take on don't make me bitchier. Just this crap that suggests that having ambition and drive make me bitchy.



Society is changing for sure. Who exactly are you suggesting is the cause of it? Women wanting to be able to have opportunites available to them? All of working women?? Ones that work out of choice or necessity? Or the "wishy washy" men that "allow" this to happen??



AMEN!!!

[Sneaky]

Well we just figured we better post a whole bunch in here to distract from the original post so it doesn't turn violent in here....we're just providing a public service to the site is all......
LOL. You left too early.

[GeekMaster]

Well, I, for one, agree with the posters original post.
Unfortunately, we, as a society, have allowed the two different sexes to develop into one ball of mush. And now men don't know which way to turn ...
Ish!
What was ever wrong with the days the men were the "breadwinners" and the women kept the home and the children?
What was ever wrong with allowing the man to feel some sort of accomplishment for the way the family was provided for?
Why was there SUCH a great need to strip him of that??
Why was it that women chose to allow some stranger to raise her children rather than bringing them up with a true sense of "family"?
What was ever wrong with the woman waiting at the front door (with just an apron on?) for her tired husband to come home from work so she could spoil him??? And along that same line ... what was ever wrong with the man telling her how to do so??
Men have become so wishy-washy now because they don't know which way to turn or what role to fill.
And women have just become bitchier trying to fill all of the roles they have chosen to take on.
Before flying off the handle about this, please stop. Take a look around at your friends, your neighbors and other members of your family. Read the front page of your local newspaper ... do you see a change in the family unit?
Does it seem to you that we, as a society, are growing and moving in a positive direction?
If so, please forward me the directions to your neighborhood as from where I am sitting (Chicago), I am watching the steadfast decline of the American family unit.
Just something to think about ...
Or not.
:spbx:

Where were you when I was looking for a woman!!:sng:ok

The "wussification" of the male will be the doom of our society.

[Sneaky]

[size=1]

Where were you when I was looking for a woman!!:sng:ok

The "wussification" of the male will be the doom of our society.
Please clarify what you consider "wussification".

[GeekMaster]

Please clarify what you consider "wussification".

I cannot say it better than the original post!!

If you work too hard, there is never any time for her.
If you don't work enough, you're a good-for-nothing bum.

If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, it's exploitation.
If you have a boring repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your ass and find something better.

If you get a promotion ahead of her, it's favoritism.
If she gets a job ahead of you, it's equal opportunity.

If you mention how nice she looks, it's sexual harassment.
If you keep quiet, it's male indifference.

If you cry, you're a wimp.
If you don't, you're insensitive.

If you make a decision without consulting her, you're a chauvinist pig, you bastard.
If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman.

If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy, that's domination.
If she asks you, it's a favor.

If you try to keep yourself in shape, you're vain.
If you don't, you're a slob.

If you buy her flowers, you're after something.
If you don't, you're not thoughtful.

If you're proud of your achievements, you're an egotist.
If you're not, you're not ambitious.

If she has a headache, she's tired.
If you have a headache, you don't love her anymore, and you must be sleeping around.

[Ally]

[size=1]

Where were you when I was looking for a woman!!:sng:ok

The "wussification" of the male will be the doom of our society.

No...the doom of our society will be the lack of forward thinkers. Let's get out of our horse and carriages, people.

[Tndream]

Well, I, for one, agree with the posters original post.

Unfortunately, we, as a society, have allowed the two different sexes to develop into one ball of mush. And now men don't know which way to turn ...

Ish!

What was ever wrong with the days the men were the "breadwinners" and the women kept the home and the children?

What was ever wrong with allowing the man to feel some sort of accomplishment for the way the family was provided for?

Why was there SUCH a great need to strip him of that??

Why was it that women chose to allow some stranger to raise her children rather than bringing them up with a true sense of "family"?

What was ever wrong with the woman waiting at the front door (with just an apron on?) for her tired husband to come home from work so she could spoil him??? And along that same line ... what was ever wrong with the man telling her how to do so??

Men have become so wishy-washy now because they don't know which way to turn or what role to fill.

And women have just become bitchier trying to fill all of the roles they have chosen to take on.

Before flying off the handle about this, please stop. Take a look around at your friends, your neighbors and other members of your family. Read the front page of your local newspaper ... do you see a change in the family unit?

Does it seem to you that we, as a society, are growing and moving in a positive direction?

If so, please forward me the directions to your neighborhood as from where I am sitting (Chicago), I am watching the steadfast decline of the American family unit.

Just something to think about ...

Or not.
:spbx:

Well, you know, SOME of us DO have to work 2 and even 3 jobs just to put food on the table for our children.
But, then again, thats what we single parents do ya know?

[Sneaky]

I cannot say it better than the original post!!
So that funny forwarded e.mail explains it all?
Do you really see women that way? As they are described in the first post that was really meant to get a chuckle?

[gdg]

To a degree I see what she is trying to say. I am not condoning the way it was said, although I agree to a point. I don't want to play doting wife, I like to have my own thoughts, hobbies, etc. I work outside the home, I though have been very fortunate to have family assist in raising my children. I have never had to worry. I think that some families have to rely on strangers to help take care of their kids because they lack the ability to be able to live on one salary alone. I am sure if they had alternate choices, they would make them.

I see the family unit declining for a multitude of reasons. Not necessarily because a woman want a career. There are some women who can handle a career and a family just fine. There are others who can't. That has nothing to do with the career, that has to do with the individual and the choices they make. If you want to be a parent, then you better realize it is not a part time job.

I feel really bad for those mothers who are dying to stay home and can't, the financial strain is too much. I feel sorry for those kids who have 2 parents who are never around and have to fend for themselves. But, again this has nothing to do with the dependency of a woman and her ability to love and take care of everyone in her family.

[Sneaky]

To a degree I see what she is trying to say. I am not condoning the way it was said, although I agree to a point. I don't want to play doting wife, I like to have my own thoughts, hobbies, etc. I work outside the home, I though have been very fortunate to have family assist in raising my children. I have never had to worry. I think that some families have to rely on strangers to help take care of their kids because they lack the ability to be able to live on one salary alone. I am sure if they had alternate choices, they would make them.

I see the family unit declining for a multitude of reasons. Not necessarily because a woman want a career. There are some women who can handle a career and a family just fine. There are others who can't. That has nothing to do with the career, that has to do with the individual and the choices they make. If you want to be a parent, then you better realize it is not a part time job.

I feel really bad for those mothers who are dying to stay home and can't, the financial strain is too much. I feel sorry for those kids who have 2 parents who are never around and have to fend for themselves. But, again this has nothing to do with the dependency of a woman and her ability to love and take care of everyone in her family.


Then agree with about two sentences of that F'd up mess.
I feel sorry the people you mentioned. I also have to say that I know some pretty kick ass co-parents and some pretty good dads that have stepped up to the plate and do a lot of the "Mom" duties as well and they have grown as people and bonded with their kids in ways they may not have done had their wifes not worked outside the home.

[gdg]

Then agree with about two sentences of that F'd up mess.
I feel sorry the people you mentioned. I also have to say that I know some pretty kick ass co-parents and some pretty good dads that have stepped up to the plate and do a lot of the "Mom" duties as well and they have grown as people and bonded with their kids in ways they may not have done had their wifes not worked outside the home.


Well damn you for always having a point. :wy

I just don't understand why some people need to be forced into being a active parent. Believe me, I know about inactive, every prenatal appt x 3, was alone. Every kindergarten play, alone.

I always liked seeing those dads that came to the school stuff, not taking anything away from those dads who can't because of work conflicts.

I live in a community where there are allot of stay home moms, talk about bitchy!!! Sheesh!

The part of what I agree with is the decline. I think there are allot more latch key kids then before. The Play Station is their babysitter. Not that all parents have a choice, but for those that do, wake up!

[Sneaky]

Well damn you for always having a point. :wy

I just don't understand why some people need to be forced into being a active parent. Believe me, I know about inactive, every prenatal appt x 3, was alone. Every kindergarten play, alone.

I always liked seeing those dads that came to the school stuff, not taking anything away from those dads who can't because of work conflicts.

I live in a community where there are allot of stay home moms, talk about bitchy!!! Sheesh!

The part of what I agree with is the decline. I think there are allot more latch key kids then before. The Play Station is their babysitter. Not that all parents have a choice, but for those that do, wake up!

Oh, I agree with you! Completely!

And yeah, some of the stay at home moms ARE way bitchy!! Because they are doing the HARDEST flippin' job there is! That takes nothing away from the stay at home moms.

But when someone tells me that there is nothing wrong with a man TELLING me to wait at the door for him in an apron and if I don't like it it makes me a bitch....well that just makes me spazzoid out.

Shouldn't we, as women, support each other no matter what our path or circumstance is? Shouldn't we as women look at each other and nod our heads and say: "I know it's hard. No matter WHAT path you chose I know it's not easy. Chin up girl! Be strong." Instead of tearing each other down?

[Lacey]

Well damn you for always having a point. :wy

I just don't understand why some people need to be forced into being a active parent. Believe me, I know about inactive, every prenatal appt x 3, was alone. Every kindergarten play, alone.

I always liked seeing those dads that came to the school stuff, not taking anything away from those dads who can't because of work conflicts.

I live in a community where there are allot of stay home moms, talk about bitchy!!! Sheesh!

The part of what I agree with is the decline. I think there are allot more latch key kids then before. The Play Station is their babysitter. Not that all parents have a choice, but for those that do, wake up!



And I agree with you about more kids being "latch-key" kids...but it has to be for 90% of the country right now...you have NO idea the guilt I have about working...my busiest time is during the summer months...so I miss out on ALOT that goes on...I do have family that help out...I refuse to have my kids with strangers...but it makes it no less guilt ridden...

[Yankee]

*tip-toeing quietly out of the room*

Doesn't make me a wuss.

Makes me HIGHLY intelligent.

[Yankee]

Shoulda posted more distractions Han.

[Yankee]

It's a rough enough world without having preset expectations imposed on us.

Just appreciate and support what the other does.

And lots of licking.

Lots.

:)

[redcat]

I agree with you Sneaky, and with you, gdgrl. Lacey, unfortunately, guilt seems to be built in to us as mothers - but we do what we have to do and when your children get older, they will understand that.

The thing that struck me, and gave me a chuckle in Laurie Ann's post is:

What was ever wrong with the woman waiting at the front door (with just an apron on?) for her tired husband to come home from work so she could spoil him???


Now, I'm picturing the woman greeting her husband at say, 6 pm...she opens the door for him with just an apron on (martini in hand for him, maybe?). I want to know WTF she did with those 2.5 kids she stays home to raise? Because you know that somewhere in that house, they are running around, yelling and having fun, waiting on dinner. And what will the neighbors say when they see her standing there in that apron? :yks

[leighm]

Once again Sneaky you have said it well. But surely there is a happy medium to it all. It's extremely unfortunate in this day and age that it's necessary to have two incomes to survive. I was fortunate enough not to have to work, although in hind sight it may have been better but a the time was more viable for hubby to get two jobs while I raised the kids. It's just not fare that that should happen or women need to work too if they don't want to. Would be great if things were like they were way back when, when all you needed was one income. Not so these days. And I have nothing against women who want to work as long as there is balance.

[OnceAKing]

[size=1]

Where were you when I was looking for a woman!!:sng:ok

The "wussification" of the male will be the doom of our society.

WTF Geek? did you run out of Font Enlargement pills or what?

[Charmed]

LOL.......:lmao2

Well if you would quit draining our young lad here of his daily fluids I would stand half a chance!! Sheesh..

[Tndream]

While we are all pointing fingers and placing blame on who is doing what wrong....
Perhaps we should point the finger and lace a hefty ammount of blame on our wonderful goverment.
Unless I am mistaken, almost no women worked until WWII and about 90 percent of the male population was called to fight via the draft.
Leaving women to work in the factories and shipyards.

But no your right... we should blame society and all the women in general right?
why not, after all, it was the media and their ideas of a " more sensitive man"
and caused lots of men and women to believe that this is what women really wanted.

Or when the movie industry started filming flicks about independant women, and more women began thinking for themselves.
More women realized that there was more to life than the ole June Cleaver
image we were all suposed to uphold.
Wearing the fancy dresses day in and day out to do housework and raise the kids.

Yeah great, welcome to the 20th century, where women actually THINK for themselves now and again and venture to do the impossible, like the space shuttle program, or become the best damned mammogram technician you have ever been too.
As far as being TOLD what to do by hubby,
I suppose it is ok for the man to turn the woman over his knee and spank her when she disobeys right?
Hey each to their own, But I for one have had ENOUGH domineering and controlling and abusive men in life to give me my fill for the next 30 lifetimes, thanks.
Yeah, this is a hot button topic for me.
:spbx:

[Han Solo]

Well with everything that's been said in this thread today, let me just say:


I agree.

[Charmed]

Thank You Edith Bunker


Well, I, for one, agree with the posters original post.

Unfortunately, we, as a society, have allowed the two different sexes to develop into one ball of mush. And now men don't know which way to turn ...

When women began standing up for themselves and took off their bra's the men did turn into a ball of mush.. What did you expect?

Ish!

What was ever wrong with the days the men were the "breadwinners" and the women kept the home and the children?
Shit woman, I still take care of the house the children and worked.... Some women are capable of doing all three.

What was ever wrong with allowing the man to feel some sort of accomplishment for the way the family was provided for?
Are you saying a man feels less about himself because he isn't the only one making the money?

Why was there SUCH a great need to strip him of that??
The only thing we stripped him of was the idea that we could survive without him..

Why was it that women chose to allow some stranger to raise her children rather than bringing them up with a true sense of "family"?
HELLO..... I think you forget that sense of family is not the quantity of time we spend with our family it is the QUALITY of time.

What was ever wrong with the woman waiting at the front door (with just an apron on?) for her tired husband to come home from work so she could spoil him??? And along that same line ... what was ever wrong with the man telling her how to do so?? Hey I like this....I love spoiling him having a job didn't keep that from happening.
And BTW I wanna see his ass in the apron too...

Men have become so wishy-washy now because they don't know which way to turn or what role to fill.

They are wishy washy because they have to admit their wives are more than a maid and baby maker.

And women have just become bitchier trying to fill all of the roles they have chosen to take on.

OK this one I LOVE because I had the best of both worlds. I stayed home with my children until they started Kindergarten.

I can tell you I was a hell of a lot bitchier when I was at home. I kept the house clean, the laundry done, I made sure the boys were clean, naps taken and all happy to see daddy when he arrived home from work. It sounds lovely but the fact of the matter is I was wore out and I would get depressed because I was the "enforcer" and when daddy came home he was "God like".. Hell yes he was....He didn't make them DO anything. He got to sit and play with them while I tried to finish dinner and clean up the freaking mess....He was the one with all of the quality time not me..

Before flying off the handle about this, please stop. Take a look around at your friends, your neighbors and other members of your family. Read the front page of your local newspaper ... do you see a change in the family unit?

To be honest not really, our local paper talks about who played dominoes with whom and How the corn crop is looking this year. It depends on where you live.... I'm guessing if you would have worked you could have moved to the suburbs or even Po Dunk. We could be neighbors :)

Does it seem to you that we, as a society, are growing and moving in a positive direction?
It depends on how you look at things. half empty or half full.

If so, please forward me the directions to your neighborhood as from where I am sitting (Chicago), I am watching the steadfast decline of the American family unit.

Just something to think about ...

Or not.
:spbx:

[Charmed]

Well with everything that's been said in this thread today, let me just say:


I agree.
Stop being wishy washy you big ball of mush.

[Han Solo]

Stop being wishy washy you big ball of mush.

I just said I agree. How's that wishy washy?? ;)

[Charmed]

I just said I agree. How's that wishy washy?? ;)

OK.....So who do you agree with?

[Han Solo]

OK.....So who do you agree with?
Do we really have that kinda time??

[Charmed]

Do we really have that kinda time??

LOL.... It's kinda sad but ya.

I'm sure you can give me the short version just say I agree with Sneaky.. :ok

[Han Solo]

LOL.... It's kinda sad but ya.

I'm sure you can give me the short version just say I agree with Sneaky.. :ok
The short version??...:sc...........OK. I kinda skimmed that mess earlier before I left..I"m not gonna read it again so I'll pick my a couple bullet points that I remember and a make a few points.

#1....On the surface I LOVE the entire post, especially the apron thing :D (course ya'll knew that was comin" right??):satan:

#2...I don't have a problem with women working or having careers or needing to be dependant on someone else and I will raise my daughters to be the strongest most independent women that I can who are capable of having any career they choose.

#3....To work or not to work should be a joint decision by both spouses based on what is best for the family, not one persons career. It's different for each family so to me it's not a man's place or a woman's place. This I will tell you....I am pretty much your typical man's man about working and careers...however, my kids are more important than any of that any day of the week and I would give it up in a second to stay home and pack lunches and clean the house and go grocery shopping if my job hasn't been the only and now the predominant income. (note, I really only cook pasta so I would need some good cooking tips:sg)

#4....This is kind of an add to #3. I do have a belief that we have lost alot of family values and the kids today are far less disciplined as a result of both parents working full time. I know there are single parents and some exceptions to that rule...but I think overall across the country that's what I see. I have always tried hard to make sure any time we are away from our kids during the day is as minimal as possible...that's just how I prefer it. Has it been a sacrifice on the financial front? Yes. And as far as the argument that nowadays we HAVE to work two full time jobs to be able to live.........I'm not sure what the answer is.......but I do wonder how much of that is created by our own greed over the years.......our need as a society to have all the latest gadgets, the bigger house, the bigger car...yadda, yadda, yadda........as we craved more and needed more....things got bigger, better and more expensive and we ended up feeding a machine that required to work more and more to keep up with the things that we craved.....at the expense of the family?? :sc We're at a point where I agree that people just can't survive on one income...I just wonder if we parents were the ones that did it to ourselves by complicating something that maybe was simpler way back when...but such is progress I spoze.

OK, maybe I didn't do so good for short huh??:sg....but that's the stuff that rambled off the top of my head. :sry

[Yankee]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Yankee]

Yeah . . . that's what I think.

Not deep.

Not profound.

But yeah . . . MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Han Solo]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Geeeeez. Us Yank....not EVERY thread is to be entered like you're entering a porno scene :ok

[Yankee]

Now . . . where's my woman?

[Charmed]

The short version??...:sc...........OK. I kinda skimmed that mess earlier before I left..I"m not gonna read it again so I'll pick my a couple bullet points that I remember and a make a few points.

#1....On the surface I LOVE the entire post, especially the apron thing :D (course ya'll knew that was comin" right??):satan:

Ya but I liked it too :)

#2...I don't have a problem with women working or having careers or needing to be dependant on someone else and I will raise my daughters to be the strongest most independent women that I can who are capable of having any career they choose.

I like you just a tad bit more cuz of that ^ statement.

#3....To work or not to work should be a joint decision by both spouses based on what is best for the family, not one persons career. It's different for each family so to me it's not a man's place or a woman's place. This I will tell you....I am pretty much your typical man's man about working and careers...however, my kids are more important than any of that any day of the week and I would give it up in a second to stay home and pack lunches and clean the house and go grocery shopping if my job hasn't been the only and now the predominant income. (note, I really only cook pasta so I would need some good cooking tips:sg)

Can't help ya with the cooking thing... I kinda suck at it.

#4....This is kind of an add to #3. I do have a belief that we have lost alot of family values and the kids today are far less disciplined as a result of both parents working full time.

I gotta disagree here.... Discipline takes for more work and It wears ya down but the rewards are priceless...

I know there are single parents and some exceptions to that rule...but I think overall across the country that's what I see. I have always tried hard to make sure any time we are away from our kids during the day is as minimal as possible...that's just how I prefer it. Has it been a sacrifice on the financial front? Yes. And as far as the argument that nowadays we HAVE to work two full time jobs to be able to live.........

Not everyone is the EOE of their company (:lmao)

Some people work for less than 10 dollars an hour. They NEED two incomes to survive.


I'm not sure what the answer is.......but I do wonder how much of that is created by our own greed over the years.......our need as a society to have all the latest gadgets, the bigger house, the bigger car...yadda, yadda, yadda........as we craved more and needed more....things got bigger, better and more expensive and we ended up feeding a machine that required to work more and more to keep up with the things that we craved.....at the expense of the family?? :sc

I agree but I am guilty of that but I didn't have them when my boys were youngens.

We're at a point where I agree that people just can't survive on one income...I just wonder if we parents were the ones that did it to ourselves by complicating something that maybe was simpler way back when...but such is progress I spoze.

Lots of times yes, we did it to ourselves.. We were foolish to think we could have everything when we were in our 20's..... I was far worse than my hubby.. I would have had us in debt up to our eyeballs but he insisted I save my money to buy the "gadgets".


OK, maybe I didn't do so good for short huh??:sg....but that's the stuff that rambled off the top of my head. :sry

Ya, that's plenty of deep thought for a Friday night. Now where the heck is Sneaky and Yankee???????????

[Charmed]

Now . . . where's my woman?

In the kitchen making ur dinner :lmao

L@@k at this

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmm

My mmmmm is back :)

[Han Solo]

Ya, that's plenty of deep thought for a Friday night. Now where the heck is Sneaky and Yankee???????????

A simple "I agree" would have sufficed :rolleyes:

[Yankee]

Geeeeez. Us Yank....not EVERY thread is to be entered like you're entering a porno scene :ok

What if I'm feeling porno scene sexy?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ya cute l'il fella. :)

[Yankee]

In the kitchen making ur dinner :lmao

L@@k at this

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmm

My mmmmm is back :)

I'm sorry I made ya use it so much you got cyber laryngitis.

MMMMMMMMMMMMm I love that sound.

What's for supper . . . and fetch my slippers.

MWAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Charmed]

A simple "I agree" would have sufficed :rolleyes:


Oh apparently we haven't met.... Hello there Hands solo.... I'm FeIsTy FaV
Nice to meet you :lmao2

[Han Solo]

What if I'm feeling porno scene sexy?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Ya cute l'il fella. :)
Ummmm.........Yooo-Hooooo!....thursday...........THURSDAY is gay porn night..NOT fridays! For the last time get your calendar straight! :mad:

[Charmed]

I'm sorry I made ya use it so much you got cyber laryngitis.

MMMMMMMMMMMMm I love that sound.

What's for supper . . . and fetch my slippers.

MWAHHHHHHHHHHHH!



Fetch my ass...... Get your own fucking slippers and get mine while your at it.

[Han Solo]

Oh apparently we haven't met.... Hello there Hands solo.... I'm FeIsTy FaV
Nice to meet you :lmao2
FYI....SHE agreed with me too....she is also apparantly too afraid to admit that publicly as you are :rolleyes:

[Yankee]

Ummmm.........Yooo-Hooooo!....thursday...........THURSDAY is gay porn night..NOT fridays! For the last time get your calendar straight! :mad:

But I trimmed my mustache for tonite.

C'mere.

It tickles.

[Charmed]

But I trimmed my mustache for tonite.

C'mere.

It tickles.

OK That's SICK!

[Han Solo]

But I trimmed my mustache for tonite.

C'mere.

It tickles.
Cripes....I shaved my balls for THIS?? :thr

[Yankee]

Fetch my ass...... Get your own fucking slippers and get mine while your at it.

Hmmmmmmm . . .

Wuss out . . . or man up?
Wuss out . . . or man up?
Wuss out . . . or man up?



Here's your slippers baby.

The rest of you shut up.

I'm the man broke the mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Yankee]

Cripes....I shaved my balls for THIS?? :thr


Psssssst . . . Fav?


I think he's serious.

Past doubts . . . surfacing.

[Charmed]

Hmmmmmmm . . .

Wuss out . . . or man up?
Wuss out . . . or man up?
Wuss out . . . or man up?



Here's your slippers baby.

The rest of you shut up.

I'm the man broke the mmmmmmmmmmmmm.


Dammit! I wanted you to spank my ass for talking back....

You have became wishy washy... MAN UP!

[Sneaky]

I would give it up in a second to stay home and pack lunches and clean the house and go grocery shopping if my job hasn't been the only and now the predominant income. (note, I really only cook pasta so I would need some good cooking tips:sg)


OK, don't faint..but I agree with everything you just said.

Making the children a priority should be the thing everyone focuses on. I do think many families like to hold on to the dual income at the expense of the family unit at times. That has more to do with our culture and less to do with women taking away men's ability to provide for the family. It just increases the familys options & choices.

The fact that I have a career has been a GOOD thing in my household. It allowed my husband to be able to change careers later in life and start his own business when I made enough money to allow for him to pursue that dream. I could hold the benefits & be the primary income for a bit. I think some men end up trapped in careers that they would like to make changes from, but that choice is removed from them because they are the primary breadwinners.

I think as long as families make the right choices, know thier priorities, and stay focused our choices should be a GOOD thing.

[Han Solo]

Hmmmmmmm . . .

Wuss out . . . or man up?
Wuss out . . . or man up?
Wuss out . . . or man up?



Here's your slippers baby.

The rest of you shut up.

I'm the man broke the mmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Awwwww, dry it up....we know where you are tonight and KNOW that you ain't in a position to get any!! :ok

[Charmed]

OK, don't faint..but I agree with everything you just said.


Hell ya! Now can we get naked?

[Charmed]

hahahahahahah SnOrT hahahahahahaha


Awwwww, dry it up....we know where you are tonight and KNOW that you ain't in a position to get any!! :ok

[Sneaky]

FYI....SHE agreed with me too....she is also apparantly too afraid to admit that publicly as you are :rolleyes:
Phhht. I aint skeered.

[Yankee]

Dammit! I wanted you to spank my ass for talking back....

You have became wishy washy... MAN UP!


Oh . . . I brought the floggy thingy.

Waiting for your attention to be diverted whilst you slip into your slippers.

And you've seen me man up. :sng

[Charmed]

Psssssst . . . Fav?


I think he's serious.

Past doubts . . . surfacing.


It completely grossed me out! OMG he talked about his balls....

[Yankee]

Phhht. I aint skeered.

Pssssssssst Han.

Wuss out . . . or man up.Wuss out . . . or man up.Wuss out . . . or man up.

[Sneaky]

Hell ya! Now can we get naked?
Well the chances ALWAYS increase when we agree!!

[Yankee]

Awwwww, dry it up....we know where you are tonight and KNOW that you ain't in a position to get any!! :ok

We may shock you.

C'mere baby.

Mwahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Yankee]

And the site will crash right when I'm warming up.

[Charmed]

:lf:lf:lf

Oh . . . I brought the floggy thingy.

Waiting for your attention to be diverted whilst you slip into your slippers.

And you've seen me man up. :sng

[Charmed]

We may shock you.

C'mere baby.

Mwahhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Pssttttttttttttttttt she has an AX

[OnceAKing]

The short version??...:sc...........OK. I kinda skimmed that mess earlier before I left..I"m not gonna read it again so I'll pick my a couple bullet points that I remember and a make a few points.

#1....On the surface I LOVE the entire post, especially the apron thing :D (course ya'll knew that was comin" right??):satan:

#2...I don't have a problem with women working or having careers or needing to be dependant on someone else and I will raise my daughters to be the strongest most independent women that I can who are capable of having any career they choose.

#3....To work or not to work should be a joint decision by both spouses based on what is best for the family, not one persons career. It's different for each family so to me it's not a man's place or a woman's place. This I will tell you....I am pretty much your typical man's man about working and careers...however, my kids are more important than any of that any day of the week and I would give it up in a second to stay home and pack lunches and clean the house and go grocery shopping if my job hasn't been the only and now the predominant income. (note, I really only cook pasta so I would need some good cooking tips:sg)

#4....This is kind of an add to #3. I do have a belief that we have lost alot of family values and the kids today are far less disciplined as a result of both parents working full time. I know there are single parents and some exceptions to that rule...but I think overall across the country that's what I see. I have always tried hard to make sure any time we are away from our kids during the day is as minimal as possible...that's just how I prefer it. Has it been a sacrifice on the financial front? Yes. And as far as the argument that nowadays we HAVE to work two full time jobs to be able to live.........I'm not sure what the answer is.......but I do wonder how much of that is created by our own greed over the years.......our need as a society to have all the latest gadgets, the bigger house, the bigger car...yadda, yadda, yadda........as we craved more and needed more....things got bigger, better and more expensive and we ended up feeding a machine that required to work more and more to keep up with the things that we craved.....at the expense of the family?? :sc We're at a point where I agree that people just can't survive on one income...I just wonder if we parents were the ones that did it to ourselves by complicating something that maybe was simpler way back when...but such is progress I spoze.

OK, maybe I didn't do so good for short huh??:sg....but that's the stuff that rambled off the top of my head. :sry

OK, don't faint..but I agree with everything you just said.

Making the children a priority should be the thing everyone focuses on. I do think many families like to hold on to the dual income at the expense of the family unit at times. That has more to do with our culture and less to do with women taking away men's ability to provide for the family. It just increases the familys options & choices.

The fact that I have a career has been a GOOD thing in my household. It allowed my husband to be able to change careers later in life and start his own business when I made enough money to allow for him to pursue that dream. I could hold the benefits & be the primary income for a bit. I think some men end up trapped in careers that they would like to make changes from, but that choice is removed from them because they are the primary breadwinners.

I think as long as families make the right choices, know thier priorities, and stay focused our choices should be a GOOD thing.

Okay ya'll are just getting way too boring...I'm beginning to think you're married IRL...Someone please pass the Fritos..

[Laurie Ann]

Well maybe if it didn't take two paychecks now to keep a family above water things might be different


I know I took the underdogs position, and I knew that I would catch some flack for writing what I did, however, I still think it is a point that NEEDS to be made ....

Yes, Big O, I do understand that it does sometimes take two people to contribute to the "cause" and that nobody can fault anyone for helping to make ends meet. That has not changed at all from the very beginning. My paternal grandparents both had to work to put my father through college ... and my father knows he was a very lucky man they were willing to do so!

My comments and ideas, however, were written specifically about those women who had fought for change from the way things had always been. Those women who burnt their bras ... those women that chose to buck the system to see where it might get them. Those women that have trouble with their roles as wives and mothers. Those who want more ... want "it all".

I am older than the women who wrote to challenge me today but I can whoeheartedly understand where they were coming from. My daughter and a couple of my (younger) neighbors agree with Sneaky, hands down and that is their prerogative. I don't try to sway them from their thoughts or opinions.

What I do try to do though is to help them ...

I try to help them by keeping their children while they attend their board meetings and their charity functions so they don't have to put their children with strangers on a nightly basis ...

I try to help them by taking a casserole over when I know they are out of town on business so the kids get a homemade meal as often as possible ...

I try to help them by playing with and letting their beloved Golden Retriever out while the family is gone from the house on those 11 hour days ...

THAT'S what I do.

And that's how I know.

The option of working outside of the home has been and probably will always be there ... it's up to the woman to decide for herself how she wants to raise her children and treat her man ...

It's a simple decision, but it's one that should take some serious consideration.

That's all I was saying.

I invited my daughter and a bunch of those younger "neighbor women" over tonight to have a few glasses of wine and to discuss this post because of the nature of Ms Sneaky's reply ... and you know what we agreed on?

A) No woman should "sit around the house waiting for hubby to come home and hope that he'll pay attention and provide her with all the sense of accomplishment she will need" ... a real woman does not need a man for that. She gets her OWN sense of accomplishment from how she carries herself, how she raises her children and what she does with her life. She does not NEED a man for that to happen.

B) Yes, no matter how a woman tries to rationalize it, those that give away their children to daycare, to another non-related individual, to a Grandmother, etc. for the better part of the day, cannot claim to be raising their own kids ... it is the sole reason of or at least has played a very large part in the downfall of the family unit as a whole.

And ...

C) Since before our time there have been abused women (and also abused men) and there still are such today ...

I work with an abused women's shelter and I'll have you know that "career women" have JUST as hard a time leaving as those "non-working women" staying with the abusive man to keep a roof over her head". Has nothing at all to do with the Women's Liberation Movement.

[OnceAKing]

Having been there at the onset, I'll personally be forever thankful for those brave women who shed those hot, sticky, binding bras to celebrate their freedom...They singlehandedly endowed me with an appreciation for NASCAR I've never outgrown.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3097/3221055059_e7a455fd37.jpg?v=0

[Laurie Ann]

Touche!
:)

Having been there at the onset, I'll personally be forever thankful for those brave women who shed those hot, sticky, binding bras to celebrate their freedom...They singlehandedly endowed me with an appreciation for NASCAR I've never outgrown.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3097/3221055059_e7a455fd37.jpg?v=0

[GeekMaster]

I know I took the underdogs position, and I knew that I would catch some flack for writing what I did, however, I still think it is a point that NEEDS to be made ....

.... Has nothing at all to do with the Women's Liberation Movement.


Very well spoken, and from a first person point of view!
It is my experienced decision that not every social experiment ends with a positive result for everyone who tries it. The Women's Liberation Movement was not "successful" for every woman.

[Sneaky]

Very well spoken, and from a first person point of view!



It is my experienced decision that not every social experiment ends with a positive result for everyone who tries it. The Women's Liberation Movement was not "successful" for every woman.



You're right. Women STILL don't make the same as men. Jobs that are primarily "womens" jobs are consistantly in a lower pay grade.the majority of the child care and home care falls o the women (not in all homes of course).

We still have a long way to go.

[Sneaky]

I know I took the underdogs position, and I knew that I would catch some flack for writing what I did, however, I still think it is a point that NEEDS to be made ....

Yes, Big O, I do understand that it does sometimes take two people to contribute to the "cause" and that nobody can fault anyone for helping to make ends meet. That has not changed at all from the very beginning. My paternal grandparents both had to work to put my father through college ... and my father knows he was a very lucky man they were willing to do so!

My comments and ideas, however, were written specifically about those women who had fought for change from the way things had always been. Those women who burnt their bras ... those women that chose to buck the system to see where it might get them. Those women that have trouble with their roles as wives and mothers. Those who want more ... want "it all".
"Those women" faught for change to make things better, not only for women, but for men as well. They faught for opporunity, and HELP from their husbands, and support to reach for goals outside the home. They faught for the ability to allow their husband choices as well, so SOLE responsibility of breadwinner does not ALWAYS have to fall on his shoulders, or if he gets sick or hurt the woman can support the family. Did that mean they weren't HAPPY as mothers and wives ALSO? NO.

I am older than the women who wrote to challenge me today but I can whoeheartedly understand where they were coming from. My daughter and a couple of my (younger) neighbors agree with Sneaky, hands down and that is their prerogative. I don't try to sway them from their thoughts or opinions.
But you also said that women working outside the home "robbed" men of their ablity to be the sole providers. I was disagreeing with that statement.

What I do try to do though is to help them ...

I try to help them by keeping their children while they attend their board meetings and their charity functions so they don't have to put their children with strangers on a nightly basis ...

I try to help them by taking a casserole over when I know they are out of town on business so the kids get a homemade meal as often as possible ...

I try to help them by playing with and letting their beloved Golden Retriever out while the family is gone from the house on those 11 hour days ...

THAT'S what I do.

And that's how I know.

The option of working outside of the home has been and probably will always be there ... it's up to the woman to decide for herself how she wants to raise her children and treat her man ...

It's a simple decision, but it's one that should take some serious consideration.

That's all I was saying.

I invited my daughter and a bunch of those younger "neighbor women" over tonight to have a few glasses of wine and to discuss this post because of the nature of Ms Sneaky's reply ... and you know what we agreed on?

A) No woman should "sit around the house waiting for hubby to come home and hope that he'll pay attention and provide her with all the sense of accomplishment she will need" ... a real woman does not need a man for that. She gets her OWN sense of accomplishment from how she carries herself, how she raises her children and what she does with her life. She does not NEED a man for that to happen.
I agree with you that a woman does NOT get a sense of a accomplishment from a man. I think that's GREAT that you get a sense of accomplishment from how you raised your children and treat your man. That's great. Being a home maker is HARDER than ANY job there is. The rewards are NOT there right away...they come further down the line. And it's an important job. Some women also get a sense of accomplishment from a career, from making a difference in the world, from being and example to her children about working hard and making a difference. Some women NEED a little more. But like Han said in an earlier post...it's up to the FAMILY to decide how to work things out. If the women are not around and are working too much it's a decision the the COUPLE made.

B) Yes, no matter how a woman tries to rationalize it, those that give away their children to daycare, to another non-related individual, to a Grandmother, etc. for the better part of the day, cannot claim to be raising their own kids ... it is the sole reason of or at least has played a very large part in the downfall of the family unit as a whole.
While I agree that some families...let's use the term FAMILIES shall we? Because it ISN'T just the women deciding to work full time along with their husbands in order to live in their McMansions & drive their two new cars and go on three vacatins a year. The husband plays a role in there too. It's our culture right now. It's NOT a decision that I would make. But I will still fight for the ability and CHOICE to make that decision.

And ...

C) Since before our time there have been abused women (and also abused men) and there still are such today ...

I work with an abused women's shelter and I'll have you know that "career women" have JUST as hard a time leaving as those "non-working women" staying with the abusive man to keep a roof over her head". Has nothing at all to do with the Women's Liberation Movement.
While I agree that abuse is a complex issue...a woman who can earn her own way and provide for herself has the ability to leave an abusive situation while a women soley dependant on a man for her survival does not.



I wonder if you look at the younger women with all the choices and freedom they have while you are still helping with the kids and lettiing the dog out and maybe you feel a little bit envious...and wonder what you would have done had you had the ability to do what you wanted?

[sassynsweet]

All i'll say is ... I believe in an INDIVIDUAL'S right to choose. But when a choice affects the FAMILY around them, then it becomes more of a FAMILY decision. NO ONE can presume to know what is best for another human being, or what choice they should or should not make in ANY situation. The key is, the choice needs to be available. And the individual making the final choice, needs to make sure they are not being overly selfish and ignoring the effect it will have on those around them.

[OnceAKing]

Very well spoken, and from a first person point of view!
It is my experienced decision that not every social experiment ends with a positive result for everyone who tries it. The Women's Liberation Movement was not "successful" for every woman.


In your experienced decisions, can you define "successful" as it relates to this discussion and to the social experiments you've been involved and/or have experience in?

Rhetorically speaking...can you name even one "social experiment" that you would say was "successful" for every member of the population it included?

But just because it wasn't successful for everyone doesn't mean it didn't have and serve a purpose. And in doing so it caused some review and improvements that were very much overdue. But as Sneaky pointed out, there's still a long way to go. The final chapter has not even begun to be written yet.

[Laurie Ann]

I wonder if you look at the younger women with all the choices and freedom they have while you are still helping with the kids and lettiing the dog out and maybe you feel a little bit envious...and wonder what you would have done had you had the ability to do what you wanted?

I am really terribly sorry that I started all of this ... it was not meant to start a debate.

My apologies go out to those of you who had to witness it ...

My original thread was written only to say that I agreed with the Poster and I gave my reasons why. But even more than that, if you read that entry again, I wanted to know WHY women made the decisions that they did ... I wanted to know why they felt a change was needed.

In short, I wanted to know what drew them from June Cleaver's household to Marge Simpsons. And I still don't have an answer ...

I have never, EVER thought that my opinion was the only one out there. I have never, EVER thought that my opinion was always right.

What I have always thought was that is was a right of mine to say what I thought when I thought it.

That's all.

I have a WONDERFUL career (veterinary anesthetist) now that my children are grown and out of the house and I love it. I had to study my ass off to get there, but I did it and I am proud of myself. (And my children are too.)

And it is NOW that I take my long vacations, it is NOW that I buy my new cars and it is NOW that I spend more time developing ME even further ...

I am not now nor have I ever been "envious" of anyone, younger or older. (Unless I see/saw them wearing a pair of Jimmy Choos!!!!!) :D

I don't take umbrage at the decisions that you or anyone else make for your families ... what's right for you, might not be what was right for me and I understand that. I still wish you good luck in your endeavor because I am FULLY aware the children you are raising are going to be the leaders of this wonderful country someday.

I also understand that it's a "families" decision whether the mother should work outside the home or not, however, I still will stick with the idea that the final decision lies with "mom" because if she did not WANT (or need) to leave her children with someone else, she just wouldn't. I don't think there is a woman alive that could be pushed away from her kids if she did not want that to happen. I just don't.

Ms. Sneaky .... I wholeheartedly understand everything you have said in your threads, I honestly do, and I appreciate you giving me your take on things so I could mull it around for a while. Makes my brain work, and God knows, I absolutely LOVE when that happens!

But my opinion has not been swayed ... I still stand by EVERY comment I made in this blog.

And I STILL wonder WHY women made the decisions they did ...

[Sneaky]

I am really terribly sorry that I started all of this ... it was not meant to start a debate.

My apologies go out to those of you who had to witness it ...

My original thread was written only to say that I agreed with the Poster and I gave my reasons why. But even more than that, if you read that entry again, I wanted to know WHY women made the decisions that they did ... I wanted to know why they felt a change was needed.

In short, I wanted to know what drew them from June Cleaver's household to Marge Simpsons. And I still don't have an answer ...

I have never, EVER thought that my opinion was the only one out there. I have never, EVER thought that my opinion was always right.

What I have always thought was that is was a right of mine to say what I thought when I thought it.

That's all.

I have a WONDERFUL career (veterinary anesthetist) now that my children are grown and out of the house and I love it. I had to study my ass off to get there, but I did it and I am proud of myself. (And my children are too.)

And it is NOW that I take my long vacations, it is NOW that I buy my new cars and it is NOW that I spend more time developing ME even further ...

I am not now nor have I ever been "envious" of anyone, younger or older. (Unless I see/saw them wearing a pair of Jimmy Choos!!!!!) :D

I don't take umbrage at the decisions that you or anyone else make for your families ... what's right for you, might not be what was right for me and I understand that. I still wish you good luck in your endeavor because I am FULLY aware the children you are raising are going to be the leaders of this wonderful country someday.

I also understand that it's a "families" decision whether the mother should work outside the home or not, however, I still will stick with the idea that the final decision lies with "mom" because if she did not WANT (or need) to leave her children with someone else, she just wouldn't. I don't think there is a woman alive that could be pushed away from her kids if she did not want that to happen. I just don't.

Ms. Sneaky .... I wholeheartedly understand everything you have said in your threads, I honestly do, and I appreciate you giving me your take on things so I could mull it around for a while. Makes my brain work, and God knows, I absolutely LOVE when that happens!

But my opinion has not been swayed ... I still stand by EVERY comment I made in this blog.

And I STILL wonder WHY women made the decisions they did ...

I apologize for any assumptions I made & I applaud you for your acheivements in your career, a very admirable one and I've been very greatful for the work of the Veterany Anethesiologist when my animals have needed surgery.

I've tried to explain my take on why women needed a change and I agree that our families are dealing with a lot of challenges lately. I also still stand by all of my opinions. My take on your original post was that men should always hold the primary career and that womens ambitions should rest soley on the taking care of the men & the children.

As far as apologzing to anyone that had to witness this...I don't think there is anything wrong with a good discussion from opposite points of veiw. I wouldn't have even noticed your post but it was pointed out to me by somoene who was upset by it and after reading it I was compelled to respond.

I also want to repeat something I've said a little earlier. I feel strongly that women need to support each other. No matter what path women choose these days they are opening up themselves for guilt and judgement. Mother's who choose to stay home and raise thier kids get the, "Yes, but do you have a REAL job" (Which of course they DO.). Mothers who choose to pursue a career (for whatever reason..if they have to or they feel they have a calling or they are raising families on their own) open themselves up to a lot of pain a worry from being away from their children, school events, important moments and people shaking their heads that they are allowing other people to raise thier kids. Both choices are a lot of work and stress. If we can look at each other and try and understand they are doing the best they can and making the best decisions they can for their families I think we will all be better off. Men are NEVER questioned on what kind of parents they are if they also have a busy career and young children.

And I agree with you Laurie Ann. It's always good when presented with another opinion. It's good to have to remember why you feel the way you do.

Good luck to you as well.

[Yankee]

Men are NEVER questioned on what kind of parents they are if they also have a busy career and young children.

Maybe not questioned.

But there is that unspoken resentment felt by SOME children and spouses over the lack of time spent and the many events missed.

Men, for the most part and by many but not all, are judged by their careers.

If they can be good daddies too . . . well that's just a bonus.

I know when I was deciding what I wanted to do with MY life, I felt the pressure to make sure I'd make a lot of money.

So I became a teacher. HA!

BUT . . . I wake my kids every morning, I drop them off at school, I pick them up immediately after, I cook their meals, clean their clothes . . . you name it.

And for that I seem to feel a societal perception, generally not specifically, that I am less than I am.

Because those who can't do . . . teach.

That REAL men . . . don't take care of the mundane tasks involved in parenting.

I just wish that we could somehow get past these "ROLES" and recognize that in this world today . . . it takes a sharing of labors . . . not the division of them.

Ya'll are ALL amazing women.

Seriously.

Not sucking up.

Honest.

:)

[Sneaky]

Men are NEVER questioned on what kind of parents they are if they also have a busy career and young children.

Maybe not questioned.

But there is that unspoken resentment felt by SOME children and spouses over the lack of time spent and the many events missed.

Men, for the most part and by many but not all, are judged by their careers.

If they can be good daddies too . . . well that's just a bonus.

I know when I was deciding what I wanted to do with MY life, I felt the pressure to make sure I'd make a lot of money.

So I became a teacher. HA!

BUT . . . I wake my kids every morning, I drop them off at school, I pick them up immediately after, I cook their meals, clean their clothes . . . you name it.

And for that I seem to feel a societal perception, generally not specifically, that I am less than I am.

Because those who can't do . . . teach.

That REAL men . . . don't take care of the mundane tasks involved in parenting.

I just wish that we could somehow get past these "ROLES" and recognize that in this world today . . . it takes a sharing of labors . . . not the division of them.

Ya'll are ALL amazing women.

Seriously.

Not sucking up.

Honest.

:)




I completely agree!! Men have the OTHER side of the stereotype. STILL. Maybe even a little worse since there has been some acceptance of women having careers now. It's still not an expectation that Men be GREAT caretakers & the "at home" parent....although I know MANY men who ARE exactly that. And that's something that those women that burned their bra's so long ago were trying to do. To allow men the opportunity to have that time with thier children and fill that role too.

A man that takes care of his kids, feeds them, spends time with them, sacrifices money and ambition and toys in order to make them lunch and put a band aid on an owie, spends a little less time on work to coach a team or takes break from work to take them swimming....to me that's not LESS of a man, that's MORE. Some day society will see that. And even if society doesn't...your kids will look back and realize it.

[Yankee]

....to me that's not LESS of a man, that's MORE. Some day society will see that. And even if society doesn't...your kids will look back and realize it.
Thank You Sneaky.

And one day society will recognize that the strength and love of a woman cannot be measured but their roles a mothers alone.

Their intelligence and compassion are needed in the wider world if any of our children hope to have . . . a wider world available.

[Xanadu7]

You're right. Women STILL don't make the same as men. Jobs that are primarily "womens" jobs are consistantly in a lower pay grade.the majority of the child care and home care falls o the women (not in all homes of course).

We still have a long way to go.

Unfortunately, the road many corporations choose to take to balance this inequity, is the ant vs grasshopper road. Give the women crutches so they can have as much as the men. I can't tell you how many unqualified women we've hired at my place of employment just to meet quotas. We have corporate sponsored mentoring programs (primarily for women,) women's affinity support organizations. And still they complain. For the men? We have the "sink or swim" ranking system. And you learn how to swim pretty quickly!

Don't get me wrong, I love the women in my workplace, and many have become good friends. But if the "long way to go" is more of the democratic "here have some free advantages because you're a poor helpless woman," then I'd say we only cripple our companies, and perpetuate animosity between the genders.

Huh, and I had ignored this thread cuz I thought it got hijacked by the lovebirds. Go figure.

[redcat]

Sneaky, again, you have said it very eloquently!!


From being on this site, I have realized there are truly a LOT of men who are consistently involved in their children's lives. I think it's great when dads are in there sharing the work, the trials, and the joys of all that is involved in family life. Hopefully it helps strike a balance so the entire family can enjoy.....You guys rock!!!

[redcat]

Unfortunately, the road many corporations choose to take to balance this inequity, is the ant vs grasshopper road. Give the women crutches so they can have as much as the men. I can't tell you how many unqualified women we've hired at my place of employment just to meet quotas. We have corporate sponsored mentoring programs (primarily for women,) women's affinity support organizations. And still they complain. For the men? We have the "sink or swim" ranking system. And you learn how to swim pretty quickly!

Don't get me wrong, I love the women in my workplace, and many have become good friends. But if the "long way to go" is more of the democratic "here have some free advantages because you're a poor helpless woman," then I'd say we only cripple our companies, and perpetuate animosity between the genders.

Huh, and I had ignored this thread cuz I thought it got hijacked by the lovebirds. Go figure.


You're right, Xan. A company being an EOE is great, as long as it stays there. But when they started being forced into hiring and promoting those who were not qualified, we hobbled not only companies but, in many ways, our society.

[OnceAKing]

Unfortunately, the road many corporations choose to take to balance this inequity, is the ant vs grasshopper road. Give the women crutches so they can have as much as the men. I can't tell you how many unqualified women we've hired at my place of employment just to meet quotas. We have corporate sponsored mentoring programs (primarily for women,) women's affinity support organizations. And still they complain. For the men? We have the "sink or swim" ranking system. And you learn how to swim pretty quickly!

Don't get me wrong, I love the women in my workplace, and many have become good friends. But if the "long way to go" is more of the democratic "here have some free advantages because you're a poor helpless woman," then I'd say we only cripple our companies, and perpetuate animosity between the genders.

Huh, and I had ignored this thread cuz I thought it got hijacked by the lovebirds. Go figure.

I know...aint that just the shitz...the outlaws have been completely derelict with their well known and often applauded hijack mentoring program of lately...it's just another sign of the times I guess...no one wants to give something so important their all anymore...lol

[Sneaky]

Unfortunately, the road many corporations choose to take to balance this inequity, is the ant vs grasshopper road. Give the women crutches so they can have as much as the men. I can't tell you how many unqualified women we've hired at my place of employment just to meet quotas. We have corporate sponsored mentoring programs (primarily for women,) women's affinity support organizations. And still they complain. For the men? We have the "sink or swim" ranking system. And you learn how to swim pretty quickly!

Don't get me wrong, I love the women in my workplace, and many have become good friends. But if the "long way to go" is more of the democratic "here have some free advantages because you're a poor helpless woman," then I'd say we only cripple our companies, and perpetuate animosity between the genders.

Huh, and I had ignored this thread cuz I thought it got hijacked by the lovebirds. Go figure.


I think you are referring more to Affirmative Action...something that I don't believe has helped anyone. I do believe that jobs should go to the best candidate and most qualified individual. I would NEVER want to be hired for a job I wasn't qualified for because I'm a "Poor helpless woman". (That phrase just strikes a cord with me and makes me grind my teeth after all the discussion we have had in this thread.)

At my company I deal with the opposite side of this. I manage a department of ALL women. I would LOVE to hire a guy that's qualified just to balance out the estrigen on some days! I have had VERY little male applicants when I've hired and the ones that have applied are not qualified. These positions aren't blue collar jobs, but more what I like to refer to as "Pink Collar" jobs. It's a not a very high paying job upon entry level, and they are jobs that are pretty much across the board filled by women.

[Rolex24]

I have to agree with you wholeheartedly on that one....

[OnceAKing]

I have to agree with you wholeheartedly on that one....


Thanks

[GeekMaster]

Unfortunately, the road many corporations choose to take to balance this inequity, is the ant vs grasshopper road...

...then I'd say we only cripple our companies, and perpetuate animosity between the genders.

Agree 100%%%

[gdg]

Being a parent is the biggest responsibility someone can ever take on. We should never feel a promotion or award for being a good employee, would ever compare to the rewards of being a parent. Most of us are down to earth, we are selfless when it comes to our children. I know that I have no qualms about sacrificing some new shoes or treat for myself when the kids are in need of something.

I applaud those men who coach, pack lunches, do Dr. appts and share in the upbringing of their children. I would hope the days of thinking this is not masculine are gone. Just like being a career woman is not a bad thing either.

But, as Han said, it should be a family decision. The children should play a big part on how that decision is made. If they are to suffer or miss out in any way, then it is pretty clear it may not be the right decision.

I also agree we have somehow fallen into a trap of thinking our kids as well as ourselves need the things we want. There is a big difference in needing and wanting. If you have to work hard to just barely put food on the table and sacrifices have to be made to do so, then that is what you have to do. But, if you are working your ass off to pay your credit card debt and Jr, does not get to pay little league because of it, then that is wrong.

I know this comment is not about the roles of women V. men, but more about parenting and sharing in that role. A career should never be more important then the people you love.

[Xanadu7]

Being a parent is the biggest responsibility someone can ever take on. We should never feel a promotion or award for being a good employee, would ever compare to the rewards of being a parent.

Very True GoodGirl. It's been said before my wiser men than I, but I'll repeat it.

People rarely wish at the end of their days that they'd been more ambitious at work, made more money, or strived to excel more in their careers. They regret missing piano recitals, getting to know their children's friends, and being there for those unplanned moments. Like when you walk downstairs in the basement, and your teenage son is staring at a blank TV deep in thought, and asks, "Do you feel like talking?" You're sure as hell not gonna wish you'd spent more time online. Just sayin.

[Yankee]

mmmmmm . . . I so disagree.

I believe we both won.

[Charmed]

HUH?

mmmmmm . . . I so disagree.

I believe we both won.

[Yankee]

Men can't win?

We both won?

Ergo . . . I won. :)

mwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Sinster]

I thought that was something totally different. So, it truly is in control..:sc
Yeah it pays off to have such a skill, evens the battle field at home..:lmao