Nuclear Attack

[spare_change]

Al-Qaida Plans Nuclear
Attacks on 7 U.S. Cities
NewsMax Wires

The newly released book "The Day of Islam: The Annihilation of America and the Western World," (Prometheus Books) paints a frightening picture of al-Qaida's nuclear ambitions — one every American must read. Seasoned investigative reporter and former FBI consultant Paul Williams reveals the alarming potential for nuclear terrorism on U.S. soil and the sinister connections among organized crime, illegal immigrants, and al-Qaida.

Recently, FBI Director Robert Mueller, in an interview with NewsMax, confirmed Williams' main claim. Mueller said al-Qaida's paramount goal is clear: to detonate a nuclear device that would kill hundreds of thousands of Americans.

Mueller told NewsMax that at times, the threat feels so real he lies awake at night thinking about the prospect.

Williams maintains that al-Qaida is not content on blowing up one nuclear device or even simply a "dirty" nuke — but wants to explode real nuclear devices in seven U.S. cities simultaneously.

Williams says these cities are New York, Washington, D.C., Las Vegas, Miami, Boston, Houston, and Los Angeles.

Mueller seems to confirm this claim of multiple attacks, saying both New York and Washington would be likely targets. Already Williams says the U.S. government has Washington webbed by "choke" points to detect nuclear material.

For many Americans the threat of al-Qaida's nuclear ambitions begins in the time after the horrific 9/11 attacks.

But as Williams shows so clearly, al-Qaida has been devising its nuclear plan since the early 1990s — and the U.S. government and other intelligence services have been well aware of al-Qaida's plan.

For example, Williams quotes Michael Scheuer, a senior CIA official who headed the agency's bin Laden unit.

Scheuer admitted the CIA "found that [bin Laden] and al-Qaida were involved in an extraordinarily sophisticated and professional effort to acquire weapons of mass destruction — in this case, nuclear weapons; so, by the end of 1996, it was clear that this was an organization unlike any other one we had ever seen."

Remember, Scheuer is describing the period before 9/11, proving again that bin Laden had been investing enormous time, resources, and money into getting nuclear weapons for more than 10 years.

Bin Laden and his adherents believe this nuclear cataclysm will usher in "The Day of Islam," the dream of radical Muslims to see all of humankind fall in submission before the throne of Allah as the "Great Satan," America, is brought to her knees.

[hank69]

scary though...sure hope doesn't happen...I know (hope) will not stop it.

[Shiane]

Al-Qaida Plans Nuclear
Attacks on 7 U.S. Cities
NewsMax Wires

"The Day of Islam," the dream of radical Muslims to see all of humankind fall in submission before the throne of Allah as the "Great Satan," America, is brought to her knees.


Well this certainly doesn't surprise me in the least! This is previous post of mine from a long time ago and here it is again, my opinion hasn't changed. If you think 9/11 was bad, hang on to your hat, the worst is yet to come.

Christians & Jewish martyrs say; "I will die for what I believe".

A Muslim martyr says; "you will die for what I believe"....
In the Qur'an, (Koran as many of you know it) Allah commands Muslims, "Take not the Jews and Christians as friends....Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them.... Fight against such...as believe not in Allah.
Islam's ultimate goal is to enforce worldwide submission to the Qur'an at whatever cost. What we label as terrorists is simply a group of people who obey the Qur'an.
If you have never looked at the Islamic religion? I urge you to do so. It is beyong my grasp of comprehension to try and understand how fanatical and radical these people are. I have read all of the posts here, and it is the general concensus that this isn't a holy war. I understand that oil and land are huge factors, and I dont disargee with that, but theres more to it. In Islam, the world is divided between the believers and the infidels, Dar al Islam (the world of Islam) and Dar al Harb (the world of war). You think about that for a minute, if that has been drilled into your head all your life. I don't know about anyone else but that scares the "holy" crap out of me. They believe that all non-Muslims are included in the world of war and can be forced to accept Islam through Jihad, Holy War.
The Promised Land (now called Palestine) was given to Israel by God, and has been occupied by Jew for the past 3,000 years. In the 1917 ruling of the League of Nationsall of Palestine was to be given to the Jews for a national homeland. Britian divided this land years back and gave it to Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, etc. Israel is now accused of occupying land which actually has been theirs for 3,000 years. Now the Palestinians claim they are the original owners of this land, and their claim is supported by some other countries, but not the USA. Terroristic acts against Israel and the US are a pressure tactics to force Israel off their land.
Even in the Qur'an it says the land was given to Israel: And Musa (Moses) said to his people (Israel): O my people! remember the favor of Allah upon you when He raised prophets among you and made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the nations. O my people! enter the holy land which Allah has prescribed for you and turn not your backs for then you will turn back losers.(Sura 5:20-21)
Now I do think that Yas makes an excellent point, to control this land would mean contol of potroleum. But, I have to ask myself is that the only reason.... i don't think so.
Look back to 9/11 this terroristic act was committed exclusively by Muslims in the name of Islam, now how fanatical was that? You think that it's just because of petroleum, i have to disagree. While most of the world stood in shock and weeped, the entire Arab world laughed and celebrated their religion's slaughter of thousands of Americans.

Siraj Wahaj addressed an audience of Muslims in New Jersey by saying; If only Muslims were more clever politically, they could take over the United States and replace its Constitutional Government with a caliphate. Quoting this Muslim; "If we were united and strong, we'd elect our own leader and give allegiance to him.... take my word .... if the 6-8 million Muslims unite in America, the country will come to us."
Is that the Islamic hidden agenda to take over and control the USA, omg I hope not? If just reading those words don't scare you, then nothing will. I don't care what country your from, radical ideas like that should send chills up your spine.

I can't help but belive that Islam is a pagan based cult that brainwashes its members who's main goal is to kill and declare war all in the name of Allah.

That being said, I realize that every single muslim isn't a crazed fanatic. But I have to be skeptical of any so called religion that encourages its members to destroy those who are not muslim.
__________________

[surfdude]

a friend of mine in the FBI told me ten years ago that there are 100 "suitcase" nukes missing - I think the Russians had them and sold them off or something like that.

so yeah, i can believe there's a risk. we gotta hope guys like my friend stay on top of their game so this never happens.

[Shiane]

NEW YORK - Federal authorities said a plot by a suspected Muslim terrorist cell to blow up John F. Kennedy International Airport, its fuel tanks and a jet fuel artery could have caused “unthinkable” devastation.

But while pipeline and security experts agreed that such an attack would have crippled America’s economy, particularly the airline industry, they said it probably would not have led to significant loss of life as intended.

Authorities announced Saturday they had broken up the suspected terrorist cell, arresting three men, one of them a former member of Guyana’s parliament. A fourth man was being sought in Trinidad as part of the plot that authorities said they had been tracking for more than a year and was foiled in the planning stages.


Thankfully it was stopped in the planning stage. You see what I meant when I said it ain't over and 9/11 won't be the worse terrorist attack on American soil. There are some crazy people in this world! Homeland security is doing it's job thank God, but they can't be everywhere, I can't help but think the worst is yet to come.:(

[tt]

Al-Qaida can plan all the plans it wants, executing those plans are another matter. Iran is atleast five (05) to ten (10) years away from developing a nuclear weapon, thanks in no small part to our "Noble Ally In The War On Terror." Pakistan.


A greater threat is the use of Biological or Chemical Weapons. Which Pakistan, India, Iran, Syria and other Middle Eastern Countries currently have available to them.

Please note, the one country that was supposed to have had Biological or Chemical Weapons was Iraq, and as of last week, the United Nations ceased all operations regarding the search for and the location of these weapons in Iraq. No Weapons of Mass Destruction (W.M.D.) were ever found in Iraq. NONE.

The ability of Al-Qaida to effectively mount an attack using a "Nuclear Dirty Bomb." would force Al-Qaida to work with countries or leaders of countries that are political and religious opposits. Al-Qaida is Fundamentalist Islamic organization. The only country in the Middle East that openly embraced this form of Islam is Iran, and Iran will not hand over control of nuclear material to an organization that Iran cannot control.

I know that among the current crop of Neo-Nut's that this is current "Boogie Man." that they use to keep people afraid. I am more afraid of the United States wanting to use "Bunker Busting." Nuclear Warheads in Iran, ignoring the fact that an attack on Iran unite people in Iran against the United States, and such an attack would also unite countries in the region against the United States and with current U.S. troop strength already suffering because of extended tours of duty in Iraq, the United States is not in the position to engage in a multi-front war. Any attack on Iraq would result in Iran using Missles tipped with Biological or Chemical Weapons against Israel, Turkey and other European (N.A.T.O.) countries.

This is more like a "What if a bear was to come." Might happen, might not. But it sure does keep people scared, a people who are scared are less inclined to pay attention to what is happening in this country, which is a great deal more dangerous, and a great deal more serious.

[unctarheel_32]

there is always a chance for a nuclear attack from some where

[tt]

there is always a chance for a nuclear attack from some where

Yes, but I for one am more concerned with the missing nuclear material from the Russian Federation than by a bomb yet to be built by Iran.

This is more like Chicken Little crying that "The Sky is Falling!" than a real threat from Iran, which according to I.A.E.A. (International Atomic Engergy Agency), is at least Five (05) years from developing a viable nuclear warhead. we should also remember the claims made by the Shrub and others about the "Iraqi Nuclear Weapons Program." that were proven to be false.

[baby face]

I am scared to death of a nuclear attack! Keep those crazy asses away from us! I don't know what this world has come to but its all friggen nuts! I no the day will come but I hope we have enough power to keep the nuclear shit away from the USA but who knows those fucken assholes flew airplanes into our buildings and killed thousands of people......Can our government really protect us! I don't feel really safe and I don't no if anyone from America really does! All I can say is I pray for those soldiers over seas who are fighting to protect us. I'm proud of them and their families!
GOD BLESS THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES!

[spare_change]

Yes, but I for one am more concerned with the missing nuclear material from the Russian Federation than by a bomb yet to be built by Iran.

This is more like Chicken Little crying that "The Sky is Falling!" than a real threat from Iran, which according to I.A.E.A. (International Atomic Engergy Agency), is at least Five (05) years from developing a viable nuclear warhead. we should also remember the claims made by the Shrub and others about the "Iraqi Nuclear Weapons Program." that were proven to be false.


There is credible intelligence that indicates that 3 "suitcase bombs" from USSR have made their way to Afghanistan. Delivery is the issue.

[Shadows]

Thankyou for frightening the bloody shit out of us all, thats all we need fear and panic, and the terrorists have won

[DeTazMan]

Yes the possibility exists that an attack on any scale could happen. It is our job as American citizens to be ever vigilant and at the same time still enjoy the freedoms that we do in this country. To allow the cessation of any of these freedoms and rights is a victory for the other side because they are taking a piece of what made this country what it is.

[Shadows]

Its just as dangerous in the UK, we thought this site was Married and flirting.

[DeTazMan]

Shadows,

Personally I would like to thank the UK for standing besides the US with all of the help they have given us since Operation Desert Storm until now. Your country has put itself in the line of fire for an ally.

This is married and flirting but I think that this topic also may deserve some input.

[SirFox]

What a sorry state of affairs.

[Cotties]

Yes the core of the site is based around flirting, it also has a news related forum, a joke related forum and several others where people can discuss topics of interest. If you find this news forum distressing I suggest you stay out of it.Its just as dangerous in the UK, we thought this site was Married and flirting.

[Shadows]

Yes the core of the site is based around flirting, it also has a news related forum, a joke related forum and several others where people can discuss topics of interest. If you find this news forum distressing I suggest you stay out of it.

I dont know who you are but we thought " Married and flirting" was just that, we wanted somewhere to relax and unwinde, we dont want to come to what is supposed to be a flirting site ( as the title suggests) to read about death and destruction. We may sadly as a result not come on so much because if its not flirting then it shouldnt be called as such, very misleading indeed.

[SirFox]

I dont know who you are but we thought " Married and flirting" was just that, we wanted somewhere to relax and unwinde, we dont want to come to what is supposed to be a flirting site ( as the title suggests) to read about death and destruction. We may sadly as a result not come on so much because if its not flirting then it shouldnt be called as such, very misleading indeed.

Shadows: You have a point. We can exchange views here as long as they are not one sided and leave others room for their opinions. I for one, and I know there are several others, have decided NOT to come on here any longer "in the news and current affairs" because of a staunchly one sided pro-Bush Cheney and Company.

There are some men and women on this Site who are away in Iraq and other places where they lay their lives on the line for Washington. It is a difficult balance to have to hear these people all the while knowing that America, Britain and other countries are in Iraq for the wrong reasons.

My advice is for you to stay away from these POLITICAL sites and let the bygones be bygones. Hopefully we will never see a mushroom cloud over our heads...

[tt]

There is credible intelligence that indicates that 3 "suitcase bombs" from USSR have made their way to Afghanistan. Delivery is the issue.

Yeah, I read about that, the former Soviet Union has something like Five (05) Tons of "Nuclear Material Missing or Un-Accounted For." Which to me is very frighting thing to even imagine. Since the fall of the Communist Government, accounting for missing nukes in Russia has been a joke.

Putin has paid lip service to trying to "Located and Secure." the nukes, but little has been done in the way of active searches.

I wonder how much money was made on the suitcase bomb deal. Several Hundred Million no doubt.

[Frenchie]

I dont know who you are but we thought " Married and flirting" was just that, we wanted somewhere to relax and unwinde, we dont want to come to what is supposed to be a flirting site ( as the title suggests) to read about death and destruction. We may sadly as a result not come on so much because if its not flirting then it shouldnt be called as such, very misleading indeed.

There's nothing misleading about the site on this part of the forum you entered on your own free will.

It's called "The news Room" where and I quote;

What's Happening In The World Today. Use this forum to discuss politics, money and what is happening in the world today.

This is in no way misleading, there's like 16 other part on this forum completly dedicated to flirting so I dont think having a place to have this discussion is in no way inapropriate.

If you dont like it, just stick to the other sections, nothing wrong with that.

That being said

Nuclear weapons have been a cold reality for decades in modern war, no matter where you live on this planet. Ever since the production of these weapons you have had atleast one pointed directly above your head.

Problem in this case is the fact that it doesnt make a lick of difference who blows it. The end result isnt good no matter where it hits.

Am I worried about it, sure in some way I guess but I wont let it get in my way of leading a productive life.

In my honest oppignion I will state as follows;

I dont think they are that stupid. Plain and simple.

Anyone with half a brain knows that should they blow anything on your peice of land would unleash the wrath of death, You would need a swiffer duster to sweep up whats left of the debris on there soil after.

Just my 2 cents

[Shadows]

There's nothing misleading about the site on this part of the forum you entered on your own free will.

It's called "The news Room" where and I quote;



This is in no way misleading, there's like 16 other part on this forum completly dedicated to flirting so I dont think having a place to have this discussion is in no way inapropriate.

If you dont like it, just stick to the other sections, nothing wrong with that.

That being said

Nuclear weapons have been a cold reality for decades in modern war, no matter where you live on this planet. Ever since the production of these weapons you have had atleast one pointed directly above your head.

Problem in this case is the fact that it doesnt make a lick of difference who blows it. The end result isnt good no matter where it hits.

Am I worried about it, sure in some way I guess but I wont let it get in my way of leading a productive life.

In my honest oppignion I will state as follows;

I dont think they are that stupid. Plain and simple.

Anyone with half a brain knows that should they blow anything on your peice of land would unleash the wrath of death, You would need a swiffer duster to sweep up whats left of the debris on there soil after.

Just my 2 cents

We apprieciate your views but in our job death is part of it and sir we dont like dealing in brains, very messy indeed. All we stated and we stand by it, married and flirting is in our opion a site where one can chill out and relax. We have soldiers in Iraq, Afagastan, and sadly they to are dying but do we harp on about NO, its part of life yes, sad, and we see sadness, but do we harp on it NO. We are told by other members if we dont like this thread stay out of it, it appears its ok for one to say something but if we ( and we are newcomers) say something you dont like we are told to stay out. We dont like whats happening in the world, but we have to try and get on with our lives. We came here to chill out and relax, it appears now that a public debate is brewing strongly because politics are being brought into what we thought was a lovely site free of this sort of thing. Dont talk to me young man like a school child. We know what would happen but do we air it like you are NO, some of us in Britain behave as best we can under the circumstances that are put before us. These sort of debates lead to arguements and hatred and we see that in life in many folds.

[tiger50]

We apprieciate your views but in our job death is part of it and sir we dont like dealing in brains, very messy indeed. All we stated and we stand by it, married and flirting is in our opion a site where one can chill out and relax. We have soldiers in Iraq, Afagastan, and sadly they to are dying but do we harp on about NO, its part of life yes, sad, and we see sadness, but do we harp on it NO. We are told by other members if we dont like this thread stay out of it, it appears its ok for one to say something but if we ( and we are newcomers) say something you dont like we are told to stay out. We dont like whats happening in the world, but we have to try and get on with our lives. We came here to chill out and relax, it appears now that a public debate is brewing strongly because politics are being brought into what we thought was a lovely site free of this sort of thing. Dont talk to me young man like a school child. We know what would happen but do we air it like you are NO, some of us in Britain behave as best we can under the circumstances that are put before us. These sort of debates lead to arguements and hatred and we see that in life in many folds.

hey guys...as cotties said..there are many forums here...some for flirting, playing games, some for news, and for intelligent debate.....its flirting yeh, but aslso very much a circle of friends...who share things, go ahead , chill out and have fun here....but we do debate some things here too, we have to respect others views, including yours....its your choice what u want to become involved in.....
happy flirting guys.....:wa:

[Shadows]

hey guys...as cotties said..there are many forums here...some for flirting, playing games, some for news, and for intelligent debate.....its flirting yeh, but aslso very much a circle of friends...who share things, go ahead , chill out and have fun here....but we do debate some things here too, we have to respect others views, including yours....its your choice what u want to become involved in.....
happy flirting guys.....:wa:

We dont mind debating, theres debating and debating and we felt like we were being spoken to like school children. Its the way cotties spoke to me that hurt me.

[tiger50]

We dont mind debating, theres debating and debating and we felt like we were being spoken to like school children. Its the way cotties spoke to me that hurt me.

ok...well thats sorta cotties charactar....he can be a little abrupt.....but he's really a nice guy..(fark did i say that).....hang in guys...we have all had our site moments.......:55

[tiger50]

here in oz, we were gunna build an atomic bomb....worked fa years got the good aboriginal trackers on the job , but fuk.. we cudnt find an atom.....

[Shadows]

ok...well thats sorta cotties charactar....he can be a little abrupt.....but he's really a nice guy..(fark did i say that).....hang in guys...we have all had our site moments.......:55

We're ok about it, its just him we dont want to know, espicially if hes that rude.

[coldhearted]

Just remember when the bomb goes off, and you are close to the blast, you probably will not feel a thing. It's that distance that causes the burns and radiation poisoning that's makes the remainder of life suck.

[tiger50]

We're ok about it, its just him we dont want to know, espicially if hes that rude.

as i said... he's not so bad , in fact i met up with him in melb a few months ago, went to tha footy together, had a great day........:D

[Shadows]

as i said... he's not so bad , in fact i met up with him in melb a few months ago, went to tha footy together, had a great day........:D

Well hes got to say sorry to me before I speak to him a very arrogont man, well Tiget Tony and I are off out for a glass of wine, take care my new found friend

[tiger50]

Well hes got to say sorry to me before I speak to him a very arrogont man, well Tiget Tony and I are off out for a glass of wine, take care my new found friend

lol ok guys enjoy, pour me a shiraz.......:55

[JCcanU]

I dont worry about a Dirty bomb Im more conserned with water plants NY, Detroit Boston. all the big citys use water from one reserve if they get Ibola or something into the water it could be devastating. im just lucky i use well water.

[mile high]

Al-Qaeda's stated goal is the destruction of the United States. I find this goal peculiar in terms of its grandiosity and the frankness with which it has been broadcast. What are we to make of this? Surely a relatively small group cannot realistically hope to achieve such an objective on its own, no matter what personal length they will go to. Yet this is the stated objective. How on earth do they hope to advance their cause when it is so baldly overstated? After all, to propose unrealistic objectives is to court the disappointment of your own followers.

If you say that you will soon destroy the United States you had better deliver a devastating attack or brace for a crippling loss of credibility and prestige. Be careful, as well, that your attack is not ineffectual since you will only raise the level of your adversary's vigilance.

To me, it makes no sense that al-Qaeda would declare such an objective without the belief, knowledge or means to achieve it. Based on these wild threats alone, a social system predicated on economic optimism isn't going to surrender its most fundamental way of life to a scarecrow hiding in a distant cave.

[cherokeered]

Actually, I believe the agenda is to destroy and cripple anyone who doesn't follow Al-Queda and what they believe.....the problem is that they can get anything they want from just about any sympathizer or from anyone looking to make a buck.....another problem is that most countries will only use nuclear weapons for blackmail or negotiating purposes to get some sort of end result they want or need.....it's politics....with Al-Queda there is no regard for life, theirs or anyone elses.....so yes, they would have no problem doing anything we of a civilized nature would not even think of....but then terrorists are seldom civilized

[Shadows]

lol ok guys enjoy, pour me a shiraz.......:55

We like a nice South Africian Wine (2005 vintage)Rocheberg Pinotage

[Frenchie]

We apprieciate your views but in our job death is part of it and sir we dont like dealing in brains, very messy indeed. All we stated and we stand by it, married and flirting is in our opion a site where one can chill out and relax. We have soldiers in Iraq, Afagastan, and sadly they to are dying but do we harp on about NO, its part of life yes, sad, and we see sadness, but do we harp on it NO. We are told by other members if we dont like this thread stay out of it, it appears its ok for one to say something but if we ( and we are newcomers) say something you dont like we are told to stay out. We dont like whats happening in the world, but we have to try and get on with our lives. We came here to chill out and relax, it appears now that a public debate is brewing strongly because politics are being brought into what we thought was a lovely site free of this sort of thing. Dont talk to me young man like a school child. We know what would happen but do we air it like you are NO, some of us in Britain behave as best we can under the circumstances that are put before us. These sort of debates lead to arguements and hatred and we see that in life in many folds.

Whoa Whoa Whoa and add another whoa for the fun of it.

Now usually I stear clear of getting into these scuffafuls but I figure since you where nice enough to shoot this nice one my way I'll feel free to express my sincere oppinion.

Do me a favor and drop the school child stuff, Your an adult and I treated you both like adults and I quote;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadows
I dont know who you are but we thought " Married and flirting" was just that, we wanted somewhere to relax and unwinde, we dont want to come to what is supposed to be a flirting site ( as the title suggests) to read about death and destruction. We may sadly as a result not come on so much because if its not flirting then it shouldnt be called as such, very misleading indeed.



There's nothing misleading about the site on this part of the forum you entered on your own free will.

It's called "The news Room" where and I quote;


Quote:
What's Happening In The World Today. Use this forum to discuss politics, money and what is happening in the world today.


This is in no way misleading, there's like 16 other part on this forum completly dedicated to flirting so I dont think having a place to have this discussion is in no way inapropriate.

If you dont like it, just stick to the other sections, nothing wrong with that.
------------------------------------------------

How am I treating you like a school child here? You brought something up and I pointed, now you didnt like it so your telling me to stop treating you like a child?

There's nothing offencive with what I typed. You openly vented on your oppignion and I corrected it, plain and simple.

This section of the forum is dedicated to exactly whats being discussed in it and there's nothing wrong with that, it's crystal clear and posted up on the front door, that in no way makes the intire site misleading.

Like I said before there's like 16 other parts to this forum that cover everything from simple hello's to giving head lessons so if you dont like this section cause it draws to close to reality then just dont post in it, thats not mean it's just common sence.

I'm not mean, it was not intended to be mean, it's not an insult to your intellect, it's just a fact, this is the section entirely dedicated to talking about this stuff.

You being new here had nothing to do with my responce and the fact that you dont like the idea had nothing to do with it either. Cause guess what I do care what you think about.

My toughts on the subject where not directed at you, it's what I think about on that given subject and I stand by it.

You pointed out that the site was misleading and it's not. That's the only thing I did and if that was offensive to you then you have my most sincere appoligy.

Best regards

[oldandnaked]

The way I see it is that we not only need to fight terror and protect our borders but we also need to stop helping to recruit these desperate and and derranged individuals by our actions abroad. Granted Osama and his ilk have been around for some time. We were made their target by what they perceived to be our interference in there world. Namely, Saudi Arabia and our support of Israel. Post 911, if our leadership would have shown the good sense and strength to use our valiant troops to pursue Mr. Bin Laden in Afganistan and over the Pakistani border instead of invading Iraq for the sake of big oil and Haliburton we would have much fewer enemies and much more respect from the extremists. Using some of our vast resources to aquire alternative energy sources and relieving us of our dependence on that part of the world instead of squandering them and the precious lives of our troops in the Iraq debacle would be an excellent start in the right direction. Hopefully a new administration will make some necessary changes and make our world a wee bit safer. Although I truly believe "Pandora's Box" has been opened and no matter what anyone does, we'll never be truly safe. Certainly not something I'm going to let dictate how I live my life. I intend to travel abroad and live my life here at home to the fullest. We all have a better chance of being killed in an auto accident then by a terrorist attack, Not only am I not going to stop driving, "I'm gonna drive like I stole it".

[spare_change]

The way I see it is that we not only need to fight terror and protect our borders but we also need to stop helping to recruit these desperate and and derranged individuals by our actions abroad. Granted Osama and his ilk have been around for some time. We were made their target by what they perceived to be our interference in there world. Namely, Saudi Arabia and our support of Israel. Post 911, if our leadership would have shown the good sense and strength to use our valiant troops to pursue Mr. Bin Laden in Afganistan and over the Pakistani border instead of invading Iraq for the sake of big oil and Haliburton we would have much fewer enemies and much more respect from the extremists. Using some of our vast resources to aquire alternative energy sources and relieving us of our dependence on that part of the world instead of squandering them and the precious lives of our troops in the Iraq debacle would be an excellent start in the right direction. Hopefully a new administration will make some necessary changes and make our world a wee bit safer. Although I truly believe "Pandora's Box" has been opened and no matter what anyone does, we'll never be truly safe. Certainly not something I'm going to let dictate how I live my life. I intend to travel abroad and live my life here at home to the fullest. We all have a better chance of being killed in an auto accident then by a terrorist attack, Not only am I not going to stop driving, "I'm gonna drive like I stole it".


Two questions --

1) What do you think the world would look like today if we had followed your plan?

2) Given that we can't go back, but can only go forward, what do you recommend we do now?

Ok, I lied ---- one more question.

I gather you are opposed to our support of Israel. Why?

[oldandnaked]

Two questions --

1) What do you think the world would look like today if we had followed your plan?

2) Given that we can't go back, but can only go forward, what do you recommend we do now?

Ok, I lied ---- one more question.

I gather you are opposed to our support of Israel. Why?

1) Answer: I think I clearly stated in my post that this country and the rest of the free world woulder be safer and more respected if we chose to attack with vengence our true enemy in Afganistan and Pakistan and not invade Iraq.

2) Answer: Good question, wish I had an answer. Mr Bush and his cronies have gotten us and the Iraqi people in an unsolvable mess. I do know that the answer is not "stay the course". We have to do something different even if it is wrong.

3) Answer: I never said I was opposed to our support of Israel, I merely stated that was one of the reasons we were attacked on 911. I also believe our unwarranted invasion of Iraq did more to bolster the terrorists recruiting then our support of Israel ever has.

[spare_change]

[QUOTE=oldandnaked]1) Answer: I think I clearly stated in my post that this country and the rest of the free world woulder be safer and more respected if we chose to attack with vengence our true enemy in Afganistan and Pakistan and not invade Iraq.

By the way --- when is the last time you heard from bin Laden? You seem to think his death, or capture, would have solved the whole terrorist situation. I would suggest that he has been neutralized -- one way or the other. I presume you mean that Hamas would not be active, Hezbollah would not be wreaking havoc, there would have been no attacks in Britain, Spain, Philippines, Indonesia, or attempts here. Or, is your only concern about the US? Your argument is narrow, and doesn't consider other elements in the world.

2) Answer: Good question, wish I had an answer. Mr Bush and his cronies have gotten us and the Iraqi people in an unsolvable mess. I do know that the answer is not "stay the course". We have to do something different even if it is wrong.

Amazing -- do something even if it is wrong? You know the answer isn't the latest tactical change? You know the answer isn't to try to assist the Iraqis to develop a democracy? You know the answer isn't to try to help the Iraqis build a workable infrastructure? You know the answer isn't to try to train their police and military to take over their own security? Anybody can be a naysayer -- even a monday morning quarterback. We don't need any of those -- we got plenty on CNN. We need a solution.

3) Answer: I never said I was opposed to our support of Israel, I merely stated that was one of the reasons we were attacked on 911. I also believe our unwarranted invasion of Iraq did more to bolster the terrorists recruiting then our support of Israel ever has.

Hmmm -- and by what leap of logic did you determine that? The fact that we now have to face them? That we can't fool ourselves into believing they don't exist? That they haven't been attacking us since 1993? The fact that now we are fighting them on THEIR streets, and not ours? Unwarranted? I know lots of Iraqis who lost a brother, a sister, a father, a mother to Saddam who wouldn't agree. I would guess there are 300,000 dead Kurds - who died by gassing -- who wouldn't agree -- if they could talk. I would guess there are 800,000 Iranians who died at the hands of Saddam and his WMDs who probably wouldn't agree.

[oldandnaked]

[QUOTE=oldandnaked]1) Answer: I think I clearly stated in my post that this country and the rest of the free world woulder be safer and more respected if we chose to attack with vengence our true enemy in Afganistan and Pakistan and not invade Iraq.

By the way --- when is the last time you heard from bin Laden? You seem to think his death, or capture, would have solved the whole terrorist situation. I would suggest that he has been neutralized -- one way or the other. I presume you mean that Hamas would not be active, Hezbollah would not be wreaking havoc, there would have been no attacks in Britain, Spain, Philippines, Indonesia, or attempts here. Or, is your only concern about the US? Your argument is narrow, and doesn't consider other elements in the world.
You certainly Have a unique way of interpeting what I say. Granted, Bin Laden may very well be dead or rendered ineffective but his legend is alive and well and al queda and the Taliban are certainly having a resurgence in the Afganistan and Pakistan border region. Perhaps the use of our troops would be better off there than defusing the civil war we created in Iraq. Unfortunately I believe like the sign in the china shop says, "you broke it, you bought it". So we are stuck trying to bring some semblence of order back to Iraq. No easy answer, the most logical although admittedly not perfect solution would be the creation of three states, one each for the Kurds, Sunnis and Shites. There could be a tribunal repesenting all three states to oversee a proportionate distribution of wealth from oil production. Needless to say this would be a difficult propostion and need supervision and support from the UN, but no more difficult than bringing "democracy" to a region where these different sects have been warring for over 2000 years. When they start loving their children more than they hate their enemies, then they will have a chance to live in peace and develop a democracy. All the money and lives we sacrifice isn't going to make it happen.

Amazing -- do something even if it is wrong? You know the answer isn't the latest tactical change? You know the answer isn't to try to assist the Iraqis to develop a democracy? You know the answer isn't to try to help the Iraqis build a workable infrastructure? You know the answer isn't to try to train their police and military to take over their own security? Anybody can be a naysayer -- even a monday morning quarterback. We don't need any of those -- we got plenty on CNN.

After years and billions of our tax dollars the Iraqi infrastructure, excluding the Green Zone is in little if no better shape, in some cases worse than when the war began. I agree we must help build an army/security force so that the Iraqis can do the job our soldiers are now doing for them. I do not not support an immediate and total withdrawal, as I stated earlier the onus is ours, we created this mess.
Hmmm -- and by what leap of logic did you determine that? The fact that we now have to face them? That we can't fool ourselves into believing they don't exist? That they haven't been attacking us since 1993? The fact that now we are fighting them on THEIR streets, and not ours? Unwarranted? I know lots of Iraqis who lost a brother, a sister, a father, a mother to Saddam who wouldn't agree. I would guess there are 300,000 dead Kurds - who died by gassing -- who wouldn't agree -- if they could talk. I would guess there are 800,000 Iranians who died at the hands of Saddam and his WMDs who probably wouldn't agree.

I never believed they don't exist, but what you seem to have a hard time understanding is that their numbers have grown along with their hatred for us due to our invasion of Iraq. We have also provided a training ground for them to perfect their skills and test their weapons against the finest army in the world. I also agree that Hussien was a rotten evil bastard with much blood on his hands. There are alot of equally rotten evil bastards out there running small countries but you don't see us invading them, perhaps it's because they have no oil. If my memory serves me correctly we invaded Iraq because of those imaginary WMD's not because of Saddams, murderous actions. Some of those actions we facilitated by the way, for example how we left the out Kurds hung out to dry when senior Bush called off Stormin Norman during the first Iraqi war.

[Iwantutowantme]

NEW YORK - Federal authorities said a plot by a suspected Muslim terrorist cell to blow up John F. Kennedy International Airport, its fuel tanks and a jet fuel artery could have caused “unthinkable” devastation.

But while pipeline and security experts agreed that such an attack would have crippled America’s economy, particularly the airline industry, they said it probably would not have led to significant loss of life as intended.

Authorities announced Saturday they had broken up the suspected terrorist cell, arresting three men, one of them a former member of Guyana’s parliament. A fourth man was being sought in Trinidad as part of the plot that authorities said they had been tracking for more than a year and was foiled in the planning stages.


Thankfully it was stopped in the planning stage. You see what I meant when I said it ain't over and 9/11 won't be the worse terrorist attack on American soil. There are some crazy people in this world! Homeland security is doing it's job thank God, but they can't be everywhere, I can't help but think the worst is yet to come.:(

****
Bush and company wants to cut some of the funding for Homeland Security. I think his reasoning is because he wont have enough money for his Iraq war. In other words he wont be able to get his corporate buddies as much money for their overpriced wares. Homeland security is the heir to the throne of America if Martial Law is put in place in America. Under many executive orders created by this president and past ones, has given the executive branch the power to suspend the constitution, bypass the congress and create a police state in which a different group of shady poeple will have control over all essential systems of the US. Which in part includes control over transportation, food supply, fuel supply, communications, media and many other things that we now take for granted.

President J.F.Kennedy once said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. It is so important to focus on that. Terrorists promote fear. Bush and company promotes fear. Fear is not the way to lead a nation. The fear that Bush and company promotes about Iran and their nuclear desires has already been declared 'exaggerated'. I think the the word 'lie' should be in place of that word. This administration has been promoting and planning on a war with Iran just as they did with Iraq. With most of the money and suicide bombers coming from Saudi Arabia for their 'insurgency'...why didnt we attack them instead? Was Bin Ladens, the Bushes, and the Saudi Royal families.. friends? I have my opinon of that. It is obvious.

The opposite of war is peace. We can have peace within ourselves even in a hostile, evil world that we live in today. That is where it counts. If we have peace in us, then the world can play their evil games and we dont have to be terrified or fearful because of it. Whats most important is that we love one another inspite of our all our differences. Simply be content with what we have and do the best we can to care for our family and friends. Thats most important and it can give us peace.

[Iwantutowantme]

Two questions --

1) What do you think the world would look like today if we had followed your plan?

2) Given that we can't go back, but can only go forward, what do you recommend we do now?

Ok, I lied ---- one more question.

I gather you are opposed to our support of Israel. Why?

I do not support Israel, because they are not yet a Christian nation. They do not beleive in the New Testament.

If we did not go to war in Iraq, we would be safer at home, Bin Laden would be dead and the Queida would not have ventured into Iraq. Sadam would have made sure of that.

What happend to Saudi Arabia? They had alot more to do with 911 or we are suppose to believe that anyway.. lol


We should disband the Republican party (which is corporate controlled) and form a government for the people instead of the rich elite......we would become the great nation that we have the potention of being...

[spare_change]

****
Bush and company wants to cut some of the funding for Homeland Security. I think his reasoning is because he wont have enough money for his Iraq war. In other words he wont be able to get his corporate buddies as much money for their overpriced wares. Homeland security is the heir to the throne of America if Martial Law is put in place in America. Under many executive orders created by this president and past ones, has given the executive branch the power to suspend the constitution, bypass the congress and create a police state in which a different group of shady poeple will have control over all essential systems of the US. Which in part includes control over transportation, food supply, fuel supply, communications, media and many other things that we now take for granted.

President J.F.Kennedy once said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. It is so important to focus on that. Terrorists promote fear. Bush and company promotes fear. Fear is not the way to lead a nation. The fear that Bush and company promotes about Iran and their nuclear desires has already been declared 'exaggerated'. I think the the word 'lie' should be in place of that word. This administration has been promoting and planning on a war with Iran just as they did with Iraq. With most of the money and suicide bombers coming from Saudi Arabia for their 'insurgency'...why didnt we attack them instead? Was Bin Ladens, the Bushes, and the Saudi Royal families.. friends? I have my opinon of that. It is obvious.


The opposite of war is peace. We can have peace within ourselves even in a hostile, evil world that we live in today. That is where it counts. If we have peace in us, then the world can play their evil games and we dont have to be terrified or fearful because of it. Whats most important is that we love one another inspite of our all our differences. Simply be content with what we have and do the best we can to care for our family and friends. Thats most important and it can give us peace.

Acually, it was FDR who said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself, but who's quibbling? Your attempt to confine the terrorist movement to artificial borders, while useful for your arguments, just doesn't hold up. We won't mention that some received training in on Iraqi soil, some met with their bosses in Egypt, some were funded by Iranian money, and some were directed by people in Afghanistan, who, incidentally, met with some of them in Pakistan. We attack the enemy, not a piece of property.

The opposite of war is the lack of war. Ask Neville Chamberlain. It is both naive and foolish to believe that we can hunker down and avoid becoming involved in the "evil games" being played today.

With apologies to Martin Niemoller,

When they came for the communists, I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews, I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

Isolationism is not, and never has been, the answer. You need only to look at WWII to see differently. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[spare_change]

I do not support Israel, because they are not yet a Christian nation. They do not beleive in the New Testament.

If we did not go to war in Iraq, we would be safer at home, Bin Laden would be dead and the Queida would not have ventured into Iraq. Sadam would have made sure of that.

What happend to Saudi Arabia? They had alot more to do with 911 or we are suppose to believe that anyway.. lol


We should disband the Republican party (which is corporate controlled) and form a government for the people instead of the rich elite......we would become the great nation that we have the potention of being...


You speak of getting along, of avoiding confrontation, of tolerance for others of a different viewpoint, but yet, you come out as anti-Jew? It's okay to be Muslim, but not okay to be Jewish? WOW! Have I ever misread you! I

Al Quaida ventured into Iraq? Dang -- haven't you been reading the newspapers, listening to the reports? Doesn't it seem strategically appropriate to draw the enemy out, and to draw it out on THEIR soil, rather than ours? Where would you prefer we fight them -- Baghdad or Boise? Fallujah or Farmington? Kabul or Kansas City?

[Torin]

I do not support Israel, because they are not yet a Christian nation. They do not beleive in the New Testament.

So, you only support Christian nations? How do you reconcile that with living in a country FOUNDED on freedom of religion and from religious persecution?

If we did not go to war in Iraq, we would be safer at home, Bin Laden would be dead and the Queida would not have ventured into Iraq. Sadam would have made sure of that.

We have no way of knowing that. I do not think the war in Iraq was handled in the best way, but I think given the circumstances, we as a country had no choice but to try to protect our country from futher attacks. Granted, the information that prompted the war was in err, but I do think that given the information we had at that time, it was the only decision to be made.

If someone shouts out that there is a man behind you with a gun, you don't take the time to check the facts, you react.



What happend to Saudi Arabia? They had alot more to do with 911 or we are suppose to believe that anyway.. lol

While it is true that Bin Laden was from Saudi Arabia, I question the validity of funding, active participation, or other direct support actions in terrorism. It does have its share of Islamic fundamentalism to be sure, but you have to take diplomatic relations into account where this country is concerned. They openly supported coalition actions against terrorism (publicly, anyway), and are definitely working to create closer ties to the west. This is in direct contradiction to the state of affairs in Iraq. Let us not forget that despite the intelligence blunders, and an arguably questionable war, this was still a nation governed by a dictatorial, murderous bastard who gassed his own people... with WMD, I might add.


We should disband the Republican party (which is corporate controlled) and form a government for the people instead of the rich elite......we would become the great nation that we have the potention of being...

I am not sure I want to dignify this with a response, and I am not even a Republican.

Maybe you are right, and we could live peacefully under a one party system led by idealogically confined group of like minded individuals. Then we could all be the same! Wait... didn't we leave a country just like that a few hundred years ago?!? :D

[spare_change]

You go, girl !!

It's nice to a rational, reasonable response devoid of emotion and hatred.

[Torin]

You go, girl !!

It's nice to a rational, reasonable response devoid of emotion and hatred.

Aww, shucks... thanks, Spare. :kk

[Barkiss]

My first grader came home the other day and said to me, "Daddy, did you know that if you eat too many grapes, it can make your tongue fall out?"

I responded, "What in the world are you talking about?"

She said, "Yes...Amy told me that her Mom talked to a doctor who told her that eating grapes will make your tongue fall out."

I obviously responded, "Honey, I'm not sure what Amy is referring to, but I promise you that grapes will not make your tongue fall out."

She responded, "Yeah huh...Amy told me, and she said that she knows someone that it happend to."

I said, "Baby...listen to Daddy, you have nothing to worry about. Grapes will not make your tongue fall out."

She said, "Daddy, you obviously do not know. I do not want to eat grapes anymore."

At that point I realized, it was a worthless argument. She is a first grader and will eventually learn better, but at this exact moment it was just easier to ignore and walk away.

For some reason, I felt this story was relevant here.

[spare_change]

My first grader came home the other day and said to me, "Daddy, did you know that if you eat too many grapes, it can make your tongue fall out?"

I responded, "What in the world are you talking about?"

She said, "Yes...Amy told me that her Mom talked to a doctor who told her that eating grapes will make your tongue fall out."

I obviously responded, "Honey, I'm not sure what Amy is referring to, but I promise you that grapes will not make your tongue fall out."

She responded, "Yeah huh...Amy told me, and she said that she knows someone that it happend to."

I said, "Baby...listen to Daddy, you have nothing to worry about. Grapes will not make your tongue fall out."

She said, "Daddy, you obviously do not know. I do not want to eat grapes anymore."

At that point I realized, it was a worthless argument. She is a first grader and will eventually learn better, but at this exact moment it was just easier to ignore and walk away.

For some reason, I felt this story was relevant here.

But you have to measure the cost of walking away -- sometimes, it's just too expensive.

[Barkiss]

But you have to measure the cost of walking away -- sometimes, it's just too expensive.

How do you measure the expense of banging your head against a wall? ;) Seems to me, that would be quite expensive. But...I understand your point.

[Cotties]

huh...what's the subject?...I just keep reading this post over and over againok...well thats sorta cotties charactar....he can be a little abrupt.....but he's really a nice guy..(fark did i say that).....hang in guys...we have all had our site moments.......:55