The Price of Fuel

[Cotties]

We are gouging oil companies – and ourselves
By David Holcberg
Ayn Rand Institute
Guest Column




The U.S. House of Representatives recently passed legislation instituting penalties of up to $150 million for companies and up to $2 million and 10 years' imprisonment for individuals found guilty of gasoline "price gouging."

But the real gouger driving up gasoline prices is not the private sector – it is our government.

To "gouge" means to extort, to take by force – something that oil companies and gas stations have no power to do. Unlike a government, which can forcibly take away its citizens' money and dictate their behavior, an oil company can only make us an offer to buy its products, which we are free to reject.

Because sellers must gain the voluntary consent of buyers, and because the market allows freedom of competition, oil and gasoline prices are set, not by the whim of companies, but by economic factors such as supply and demand.

If oil companies could set prices at will, surely they would have charged higher prices in the 1990s, when gasoline was under one dollar a gallon.

Because oil companies and gas stations cannot set their prices arbitrarily, they must make their profits by earning them – by efficiently producing something that we value and are eager to buy. In so doing, they assume great risks and expend enormous effort.

Over the decades, oil companies have created a huge infrastructure to produce and distribute gasoline by investing hundreds of billions of dollars in prospecting, drilling, transporting, stocking and refining oil.

document.

In the absence of political factors like the 1973 OPEC oil embargo or the Gulf wars, the net effect of oil companies' pursuit of profit has been to drive the price of oil and gasoline, not up, but down.

The price of a gallon of gasoline (in 2006 dollars) fell from $3 in the early 1920s to $2.50 in the 1940s to $2 in the 1960s to under $1.50 in the 1990s.

This downward trend is all the more impressive because it required the discovery and exploration of previously inaccessible sources of oil and because it persisted despite massive taxation and increased government regulation of the oil industry.



When we see the price of gasoline today, we should not accuse oil companies of gouging but rather thank them that prices are not much higher.

The true culprit that we should condemn for driving up prices is the government, which has engaged – with popular support – in the gouging of both the producers and consumers of gasoline.

Federal and state governments have long viewed gasoline taxes as a cash cow. In 2003, for instance, when the average retail price for a gallon of gasoline was $1.56, federal and state taxes averaged about 40 cents a gallon – which amounts to a far higher tax rate, 34 percent, than we pay for almost any other product.

(Contrary to popular belief, gasoline taxes do not just pay for the roads we drive on; less than 60 percent of the gas tax-funded "Highway Trust Fund" goes toward highways.)

Along with high taxes, environmental regulations – justified in the name of protecting nature from human activity – have dramatically increased the production costs, and thus the price, of oil and gasoline.

The government, for example, has closed huge areas to oil drilling, including the uninhabited wilderness of ANWR and the out-of-sight waters over the Atlantic and Pacific continental shelves. This, of, course significantly reduces the domestic supply of oil.

The government also has passed onerous environmental regulations that make it uneconomical for many old refineries to keep producing (50 out of 194 refineries were shut down from 1990 to 2004) and discourage new refineries from being built (no major refinery has been built in the last 30 years).

Regulations such as these push the surviving refineries to operate at almost full capacity, creating a situation where any significant reduction in the production of some refineries (e.g., from a hurricane) cannot be compensated by increased production in others.

Exorbitant spikes in prices, which many attribute to oil companies' "gouging," are actually caused by government constraints.

If we want to stop the irrational forces that have been driving up the price of gasoline and our cost of living, we must demand that our elected officials eliminate the regulations and excessive taxes that restrict the producers of oil and gas.



It's past time to stop gouging oil companies – and ourselves.

[Cotties]

What are you paying and where for your petrol/gas prices?

[Cotties]

City Effective Date Price in USD
Regular/Gallon
Nation City Price
UK TEESIDE $5.64
HONG KONG HONG KONG $5.62
UK MILFORD HAVEN $5.56
UK READING $5.56
UK NORWICH $5.54
GERMANY FRANKFURT $5.29
DENMARK COPENHAGEN $5.08
NORWAY STAVANGER $5.07
NORWAY OSLO $4.93
ITALY ROME $4.86
TURKEY ISTANBUL $4.85
PORTUGAL LISBON $4.80
KOREA SEOUL $4.71
SWITZERLAND GENEVA $4.56
KOREA KOJE/OKPO $4.53
AUSTRIA VIENNA $4.50
CROATIA ZAGREB $4.32
JAPAN TOKYO $3.84
AUSTRALIA SYDNEY $2.63
CAMBODIA PHNOM PENH $2.57
TAIWAN TAIPEI $2.47
GEORGIA TBILISI $2.31
LAOS VIENTIANE $1.66
THAILAND BANGKOK $1.60
CHINA TIANJIN $1.54
CHINA SHANGHAI $1.48
RUSSIA MOSCOW $1.45
KAZAKHSTAN ALMATY $1.36
KAZAKHSTAN ATYRAU $1.35
TAJIKISTAN DUSHANBE $1.32
AZERBAIJAN BAKU $1.15
VENEZUELA CARACAS $0.14

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/price.html

[hoss]

Here in Canada on the wet coast we pay anywhere from 93 cents to a 1.30 a litre ...the price can go up or down as much as 15 cents a day ,i have gone to work and it 95 and on the way home its up to 1.10...

at least 35 cents of that is tax

[Cotties]

I'm paying about 90cents a litre in Bangkok at the moment. They have a great free way system and very decent highways.. The back streets are crap though..

How do they justify the radical price changes in one day in Canada?Here in Canada on the wet coast we pay anywhere from 93 cents to a 1.30 a litre ...the price can go up or down as much as 15 cents a day ,i have gone to work and it 95 and on the way home its up to 1.10...

at least 35 cents of that is tax

[David01]

GREED from the oil pricks

[spare_change]

GREED from the oil pricks


Yeah -- damn people invest their money, and they actually expect a return on it -- what the hell were they thinking?

I think we should take all the profits away from them, even if it is their retirement plan, and give it to the government. They know SO much better what to do with the money, anyway!!

[PlayfulMale69]

I'm paying about 90cents a litre in Bangkok at the moment. They have a great free way system and very decent highways.. The back streets are crap though..

How do they justify the radical price changes in one day in Canada?

We are paying anywhere from $2.75/gal to $3.50/gal in Texas and Oklahoma.

That would be 72cents/liter to 92cents/liter.

[tt]

Screw the oil companies, I went out along with my wife and bought a Toyota Prius last month.

[PlayfulMale69]

Screw the oil companies, I went out along with my wife and bought a Toyota Prius last month.

I have several friends that have a Prius. They all say they like it. Instead of the advertised 60mpg, they will get 50mpg. It is weird backing up the car in the parkinglot and the engine not running.

[hoss]

I'm paying about 90cents a litre in Bangkok at the moment. They have a great free way system and very decent highways.. The back streets are crap though..

How do they justify the radical price changes in one day in Canada?

they had a inquiry and found no price gouging ...they said it was due to the volitale price and demand of oil ...i heard last nite that in the states 30 out of 150 refineires are not operational ...

[OpBob]

The worst thing about oil prices is that whenever demand for the fuel is high, like during peak vacation periods, the price goes up. Why does gasoline have to follow the laws of supply and demand?? I just got back from a trip to California where gasoline prices are high. Can you believe it, that most vehicles that I saw on the freeways are large SUVs, pick up trucks, and full size cars. The American public can't stop from buying gas guzzlers! Yet, they complain about the price of gasoline.

Oh, by the way, I paid $2.50 for a 25 oz. of bottled water. Is this another consipiracy??

[PlayfulMale69]

The worst thing about oil prices is that whenever demand for the fuel is high, like during peak vacation periods, the price goes up. Why does gasoline have to follow the laws of supply and demand?? I just got back from a trip to California where gasoline prices are high. Can you believe it, that most vehicles that I saw on the freeways are large SUVs, pick up trucks, and full size cars. The American public can't stop from buying gas guzzlers! Yet, they complain about the price of gasoline.

Oh, by the way, I paid $2.50 for a 25 oz. of bottled water. Is this another consipiracy??

That is the way it is in the free market. The odd thing about the gas stations is that the prices will go up a lot faster than they will go down. That is in relation to the oil prices though, not the latest vacation holiday.

The SUV argument is somewhat confusing to me. Our SUV gets 18-22mpg and my friends minivan gets 25-28mpg. Lots of less space and no towing capacity for very little mileage. The hybrid cars that get 40+ can't carry as much people and luggage. We took 7 people in our SUV on a trip and we would have had to take the 2 PRIUS's on the same trip.

okay, enough rambling for me.

[tt]

I have several friends that have a Prius. They all say they like it. Instead of the advertised 60mpg, they will get 50mpg. It is weird backing up the car in the parkinglot and the engine not running.

It depends on how and where you are driving. The top end of mpg can go as high as 99.9, when going down hill and charging the battery, but on a road trip down to Monterey last week, the average 55.5 mpg. The camera helps mounted in the back helps when you backing up.

[baby face]

Gas prices in Kansas are running about 3.09 a gallon......it sucks! My hubby has to drive about 45 miles to work one way so we got him this old piece of crap a 1992 geo metro and let me tell you compare to him driving his truck he saves about $110.00 dollars a week! Our little metro gets about 42 miles to the gallon compare to our truck that gets 15 miles to the gallon! Gas prices suck........I feel old I'm only 30 and I tell my son when I first started driving the gas prices were only 72 cents a gallon sounds like my parents story of gas for 17 cents a gallon.......it crazy but I don't think it will ever get better

[dartgirl]

We are paying $3.00 or so here in Idaho where I live. I can go 40 miles in any direction and pay less. I live in tourist town, so all the local politicians tell us. I drive an Jeep, hubby and sons drive full size trucks. Yes we get lousy gas mileage but I like knowing that if one of the idiots out there driving run into me my odds of walking away are astronimical compared to all of those little cars. I had a girl in a honda run into the back of my 65 Dodge. I got the unside of my bumper bent a little, she just about totaled her car. I'll keep my gas guzzler thanks!

[Cotties]

that of course is until a truck runs into youWe are paying $3.00 or so here in Idaho where I live. I can go 40 miles in any direction and pay less. I live in tourist town, so all the local politicians tell us. I drive an Jeep, hubby and sons drive full size trucks. Yes we get lousy gas mileage but I like knowing that if one of the idiots out there driving run into me my odds of walking away are astronimical compared to all of those little cars. I had a girl in a honda run into the back of my 65 Dodge. I got the unside of my bumper bent a little, she just about totaled her car. I'll keep my gas guzzler thanks!...and don't forget ...those cars are designed to crumble;)

[oldandnaked]

I'm certain this won't be a popular stance, but I think in the long run we'd be better off if the government gradually taxed gasoline to the point where we would be paying nearly five dollars a gallon. You'd soon see alot more hybrids than mammoth SUV's on the road. You'd also see the speeding up of research and development of alternative fuels, less consumption, therefore less dependence on foriegn oil. The greening of America, once and still considered by some to be a "tree hugging, liberal" concept, is in my opinion a necessity not only to improve our environment but also to curb some of the funds that go to support the terrorist. I realize this wouldn't be a painless transition, that the cost of all goods and services we use is directly or indirectly related to the cost of oil. The additional revenue from the elevated gas tax would have to a least in part be used to allieviate some of that burden. No pain, no gain, as long as gas hovers around three dollars a gallon, it will be status quo.

[Sweetdreams069]

I'm certain this won't be a popular stance, but I think in the long run we'd be better off if the government gradually taxed gasoline to the point where we would be paying nearly five dollars a gallon. You'd soon see alot more hybrids than mammoth SUV's on the road. You'd also see the speeding up of research and development of alternative fuels, less consumption, therefore less dependence on foriegn oil. The greening of America, once and still considered by some to be a "tree hugging, liberal" concept, is in my opinion a necessity not only to improve our environment but also to curb some of the funds that go to support the terrorist. I realize this wouldn't be a painless transition, that the cost of all goods and services we use is directly or indirectly related to the cost of oil. The additional revenue from the elevated gas tax would have to a least in part be used to allieviate some of that burden. No pain, no gain, as long as gas hovers around three dollars a gallon, it will be status quo.

I have to agree with you. Force these people in their big suv's and trucks to either pay out the wazoo or buy a more economical car. Sorry but that's what we have to do. Way too many vehicles on the road today. And the government and oil companies aren't going to give up thier profit anytime soon. I can see some alternate fuel sources slowly being allowed to be used, but not at any expense to them. They will see thier profits no matter what. The technology has been there for quite some time. That's not the problem . The problem is greed.
We can make a computer chip with millions of transistors inside it. You don't think we can make a car that will easily give us 100 mpg. HAHAHAHA!!!!! Who are they kidding?? Not me!!!! They only tell us what they want us to know.

[Cotties]

what about the price of diesel for trucks...might make the day to day grocery shopping a hell of a lot more expensiveI'm certain this won't be a popular stance, but I think in the long run we'd be better off if the government gradually taxed gasoline to the point where we would be paying nearly five dollars a gallon. You'd soon see alot more hybrids than mammoth SUV's on the road. You'd also see the speeding up of research and development of alternative fuels, less consumption, therefore less dependence on foriegn oil. The greening of America, once and still considered by some to be a "tree hugging, liberal" concept, is in my opinion a necessity not only to improve our environment but also to curb some of the funds that go to support the terrorist. I realize this wouldn't be a painless transition, that the cost of all goods and services we use is directly or indirectly related to the cost of oil. The additional revenue from the elevated gas tax would have to a least in part be used to allieviate some of that burden. No pain, no gain, as long as gas hovers around three dollars a gallon, it will be status quo.

[spare_change]

I'm certain this won't be a popular stance, but I think in the long run we'd be better off if the government gradually taxed gasoline to the point where we would be paying nearly five dollars a gallon. You'd soon see alot more hybrids than mammoth SUV's on the road. You'd also see the speeding up of research and development of alternative fuels, less consumption, therefore less dependence on foriegn oil. The greening of America, once and still considered by some to be a "tree hugging, liberal" concept, is in my opinion a necessity not only to improve our environment but also to curb some of the funds that go to support the terrorist. I realize this wouldn't be a painless transition, that the cost of all goods and services we use is directly or indirectly related to the cost of oil. The additional revenue from the elevated gas tax would have to a least in part be used to allieviate some of that burden. No pain, no gain, as long as gas hovers around three dollars a gallon, it will be status quo.

A nice idea, in theory, but it doesn't work quite that way --

You have to understand motives -- the motives of the people involved. In this case, there would be three: 1) the consumer, 2) the government official, and 3) the energy companies.

In order to make real progress, you have to incentivize (or de-incentivize) all the players.

1) You have to de-incentivize the consumer by making oil based energy so expensive he can't tolerate it. Of course, that's never going to happen, because of the poor little old lady who can't afford fuel oil, so we have to make an exception for her, or the single mother who can't afford to travel to her job, so we have to make an exception for her. And, of course, there is all the disaster aid the federal government pays every time it snows more than a quarter inch anywhere - not to mention the subsidies to the orange growers because they lost their crops. etc. etc. etc.

2) The government official is incentivized to keep his job -- some would call it building his own little empire. He has to make his job so important that nobody would think of eliminating his position. To do this, he needs insanely stupid laws that he can enforce, and if the implementation of the law is so expensive that private businesses can't do it, all the better. So, he has no incentive to see the problem fixed. Hell, if you fixed it, he would be out of a job --

3) The energy companies are making record profits -- mainly because of insane laws established by Congress during the last energy crisis. How much money would you have to offer them to get them to scrap a wildly successful business in favor of one that MIGHT work?

4) Under the current energy structure, the federal government has seen its energy tax income increase by over 65% (when compared to 1982). It would be difficult to convince Congress that changing the system is beneficial (and you thought they worked for you -- sheesh!)

When you add to this the fact that administration of a tax dollar eats up 31 cents of that tax dollar, it quickly becomes obvious that taxation isn't the answer, and won't accomplish the desired goals.

[oldandnaked]

what about the price of diesel for trucks...might make the day to day grocery shopping a hell of a lot more expensive

What about bio-diesel? They could fill up at the local KFC. If it works for Willie Nelson, why not the rest of America?

[My_Secrets_Kept]

Those that think the answer is to tax fuel or oil out the wazoo in order to force change, have you considered that would not just cause the price of the gasoline to go up? The price of all goods/services would go up, because it would cause a trickle down effect.

[oldandnaked]

Those that think the answer is to tax fuel or oil out the wazoo in order to force change, have you considered that would not just cause the price of the gasoline to go up? The price of all goods/services would go up, because it would cause a trickle down effect.

Of course we've considered it, that's exactly what would accellerate the "forced change".

[oldandnaked]

A nice idea, in theory, but it doesn't work quite that way --

You have to understand motives -- the motives of the people involved. In this case, there would be three: 1) the consumer, 2) the government official, and 3) the energy companies.

In order to make real progress, you have to incentivize (or de-incentivize) all the players.

1) You have to de-incentivize the consumer by making oil based energy so expensive he can't tolerate it. Of course, that's never going to happen, because of the poor little old lady who can't afford fuel oil, so we have to make an exception for her, or the single mother who can't afford to travel to her job, so we have to make an exception for her. And, of course, there is all the disaster aid the federal government pays every time it snows more than a quarter inch anywhere - not to mention the subsidies to the orange growers because they lost their crops. etc. etc. etc.

2) The government official is incentivized to keep his job -- some would call it building his own little empire. He has to make his job so important that nobody would think of eliminating his position. To do this, he needs insanely stupid laws that he can enforce, and if the implementation of the law is so expensive that private businesses can't do it, all the better. So, he has no incentive to see the problem fixed. Hell, if you fixed it, he would be out of a job --

3) The energy companies are making record profits -- mainly because of insane laws established by Congress during the last energy crisis. How much money would you have to offer them to get them to scrap a wildly successful business in favor of one that MIGHT work?

4) Under the current energy structure, the federal government has seen its energy tax income increase by over 65% (when compared to 1982). It would be difficult to convince Congress that changing the system is beneficial (and you thought they worked for you -- sheesh!)

When you add to this the fact that administration of a tax dollar eats up 31 cents of that tax dollar, it quickly becomes obvious that taxation isn't the answer, and won't accomplish the desired goals.


I knew you were going to say that.

[UltimateNaneki]

The price of fuel went down over the week end from $1.02 to .96! a litre here in Canada

[Cotties]

thats got to be good...do you know what justified the price dropThe price of fuel went down over the week end from $1.02 to .96! a litre here in Canada

[SirFox]

The price of car diesel fuel here is about € 1.04 per liter and that it is because we are a port city. Inland France, we find the same liter at € 1.15, sometimes higher.
€1.15 is US$ 1.571 or CAD$.1. 6489 or AUD$ 1.86.

This may mean nothing to most people so just take your calculators and multiply by 3.80 to obtain the US gallon equivalent. We pay about US$6.00 for a gallon of diesel!

Anyone in the USA already paying that amount for a gallon of diesel fuel? I doubt it.

[Cotties]

they do seem to pay alot more in Europe..I'm sure they have their reasonsThe price of car diesel fuel here is about € 1.04 per liter and that it is because we are a port city. Inland France, we find the same liter at € 1.15, sometimes higher.
€1.15 is US$ 1.571 or CAD$.1. 6489 or AUD$ 1.86.

This may mean nothing to most people so just take your calculators and multiply by 3.80 to obtain the US gallon equivalent. We pay about US$6.00 for a gallon of diesel!

Anyone in the USA already paying that amount for a gallon of diesel fuel? I doubt it.

[SirFox]

they do seem to pay alot more in Europe..I'm sure they have their reasons

They just need a lot of money to fill the pockets of the millionaires.

How much is gasoline, diesel COTTIES in OZ?

[Cotties]

a $1.28...Bangkoks about 90cents a litre..It makes or breaks their politiciansThey just need a lot of money to fill the pockets of the millionaires.

How much is gasoline, diesel COTTIES in OZ?

[My_Secrets_Kept]

Of course we've considered it, that's exactly what would accellerate the "forced change".


It would force change! But would it have the desired effect quick enough? As the price of fuel and oil went up so would everything that has cash value. So after the cost of R&D and implementation of the alternative bio fuels, what would be the cost of those in comparison to what we are paying now for fuel? Isn't alteast a portion of the reason we no longer want to be reliant on crude because of the high costs?

I am all for alternative fuels that are better on the environment and serve our own economy. I honestly don't know what the answer is to quicken the pace so that it would be offered more widely, but I personally don't think that bending the comsumer over is the way to force change.

[PlayfulMale69]

I'm certain this won't be a popular stance, but I think in the long run we'd be better off if the government gradually taxed gasoline to the point where we would be paying nearly five dollars a gallon. You'd soon see alot more hybrids than mammoth SUV's on the road. You'd also see the speeding up of research and development of alternative fuels, less consumption, therefore less dependence on foriegn oil. The greening of America, once and still considered by some to be a "tree hugging, liberal" concept, is in my opinion a necessity not only to improve our environment but also to curb some of the funds that go to support the terrorist. I realize this wouldn't be a painless transition, that the cost of all goods and services we use is directly or indirectly related to the cost of oil. The additional revenue from the elevated gas tax would have to a least in part be used to allieviate some of that burden. No pain, no gain, as long as gas hovers around three dollars a gallon, it will be status quo.

I am all for alternative methods, but anything we look at is not making the world any greener just changing our poison. Take Hybrids for example, you have to still use some oil based fuel and you have to throw away that huge battery at some point. The Hydrogen Fuel Cell is interesting but in a lot of cases the process to make that hydrogen fuel cell is using coal or oil based fuels to create it.

I do think we should try to harness solar, hydro, and wind power where we can. But that doesn't really address the SUV comment above. Speaking of SUV's, there are not a lot of choices to pull a heavy trailer in the alternative energy category.

Bottom line is alternative energy is going to sit in the wings until something real surfaces. I was noticiing that the Toyota Prius sales was going to double this year from last year, so the move is happening slowly. I am not sure how much is fuel price based.

[oldandnaked]

[QUOTE=My_Secrets_Kept]It would force change! But would it have the desired effect quick enough? As the price of fuel and oil went up so would everything that has cash value. So after the cost of R&D and implementation of the alternative bio fuels, what would be the cost of those in comparison to what we are paying now for fuel? Isn't alteast a portion of the reason we no longer want to be reliant on crude because of the high costs?

I am all for alternative fuels that are better on the environment and serve our own economy. I honestly don't know what the answer is to quicken the pace so that it would be offered more widely, but I personally don't think that bending the comsumer over is the way to force change.[/QUOTE


Therein lies the problem, everyone wants change but no one wants to sacrifice for it. The price of fuel is going up whether we do anything about it or not. By accellerating it gradually by taxation it will help prepare us for the inevitable and at least provide some revenue to ease some of the pain. Also when the time comes we will not be caught with our pants down. Nothing worse than being "bent over" with your pants down. We truly are at war and I believe our best defense is to rid ourselves of our dependence on foreign oil. Traditionally this country has gone through great sacrifice during times of war, is our generation willing to make the same sacrifices? I'm not saying this is the cure all, like most complex problems it would best be solved by a plethora of small soultions, but I do believe this would be a great catalyst to get the ball rolling.

[PlayfulMale69]

Therein lies the problem, everyone wants change but no one wants to sacrifice for it. The price of fuel is going up whether we do anything about it or not. By accellerating it gradually by taxation it will help prepare us for the inevitable and at least provide some revenue to ease some of the pain. Also when the time comes we will not be caught with our pants down. Nothing worse than being "bent over" with your pants down. We truly are at war and I believe our best defense is to rid ourselves of our dependence on foreign oil. Traditionally this country has gone through great sacrifice during times of war, is our generation willing to make the same sacrifices? I'm not saying this is the cure all, like most complex problems it would best be solved by a plethora of small soultions, but I do believe this would be a great catalyst to get the ball rolling.

Ah, but do you really think that raising taxes will do what you say? Once the government gets our money in taxes there is no guarantee that they will spend it on what was taxed. So we are still suck, in this oil dependency with less money to show for it.

Your sacrifice comment is interesting. I will pay to put solar power at my house, I would pay for something real. I don't see that out there yet, but I am still hoping.

[Kissie]

I filled my car for the 3rd time since hubby left for Iraq and it was actually only 2.61...I was shocked!!! But I am sure since Labor Day is coming it will be on the UP rise again!!!!!

[My_Secrets_Kept]

Therein lies the problem, everyone wants change but no one wants to sacrifice for it. The price of fuel is going up whether we do anything about it or not. By accellerating it gradually by taxation it will help prepare us for the inevitable and at least provide some revenue to ease some of the pain. Also when the time comes we will not be caught with our pants down. Nothing worse than being "bent over" with your pants down. We truly are at war and I believe our best defense is to rid ourselves of our dependence on foreign oil. Traditionally this country has gone through great sacrifice during times of war, is our generation willing to make the same sacrifices? I'm not saying this is the cure all, like most complex problems it would best be solved by a plethora of small soultions, but I do believe this would be a great catalyst to get the ball rolling.

Did I infer that I wasn't willing to make sacrafices? In my own small ways I do. But should we sacrafice our jobs, our ability to afford groceries or electricity? I mention those things because they would have a direct effect on many.

You will get no disagreement from me that we are at war, are too dependent on foreign oil & that the price of gas that we use now will only continue rise. I also don't disagree that your initial suggestion isn't the cure all ;)

We should be more open to many small soutions. The first thing that comes to mind since it was previously mentioned here is that if you don't require a gas guzzler for work or to manuever your neck of the woods, then why have one? I am not suggesting that everyone go out and get a matchbox, but consider taking a step down to a more economical vehicle that you still feel safe having your family in. Do I really need to drive town today to run errands, or can it wait for a few more days and combine more things to do in one shot? Does the tv and lights need to be on in the room that I am not currently using? Everyone can and shoud be willing to help even if it's in small ways.

[My_Secrets_Kept]

I filled my car for the 3rd time since hubby left for Iraq and it was actually only 2.61...I was shocked!!! But I am sure since Labor Day is coming it will be on the UP rise again!!!!!

I noticed that the price has gone down here a bit too, don't recall the exact price but saw the lowest yesterday in the low $2.6? something per gallon.

[spare_change]

The price of car diesel fuel here is about € 1.04 per liter and that it is because we are a port city. Inland France, we find the same liter at € 1.15, sometimes higher.
€1.15 is US$ 1.571 or CAD$.1. 6489 or AUD$ 1.86.

This may mean nothing to most people so just take your calculators and multiply by 3.80 to obtain the US gallon equivalent. We pay about US$6.00 for a gallon of diesel!

Anyone in the USA already paying that amount for a gallon of diesel fuel? I doubt it.



Yes, but .......

from about.com

"One of the big questions for budgeting a European vacation is the price of gas. In short, European prices are considerably higher than they are in America, about 2.3 x higher.

Make no mistake: the price of the raw gas is about the same as the U.S., but Europe taxes gasoline at a higher rate. At the moment, taxes in France make up about 70 percent of the pump price. For comparison, the U.S. federal gasoline tax of of 2005 was 18.4 cents per gallon, with each State adding between 10 and 33 cents of tax, according to Widipedia. That makes the maximum gasoline tax rate 17% in the U.S. "

[SirFox]

Yes, but .......

from about.com

"One of the big questions for budgeting a European vacation is the price of gas. In short, European prices are considerably higher than they are in America, about 2.3 x higher.

Make no mistake: the price of the raw gas is about the same as the U.S., but Europe taxes gasoline at a higher rate. At the moment, taxes in France make up about 70 percent of the pump price. For comparison, the U.S. federal gasoline tax of of 2005 was 18.4 cents per gallon, with each State adding between 10 and 33 cents of tax, according to Widipedia. That makes the maximum gasoline tax rate 17% in the U.S. "

It's almost worth taking a trip to the States to get gas!!:lmao

[oldandnaked]

Yes, but .......

from about.com

"One of the big questions for budgeting a European vacation is the price of gas. In short, European prices are considerably higher than they are in America, about 2.3 x higher.

Make no mistake: the price of the raw gas is about the same as the U.S., but Europe taxes gasoline at a higher rate. At the moment, taxes in France make up about 70 percent of the pump price. For comparison, the U.S. federal gasoline tax of of 2005 was 18.4 cents per gallon, with each State adding between 10 and 33 cents of tax, according to Widipedia. That makes the maximum gasoline tax rate 17% in the U.S. "


For this very reason you'll find Europeans driving much more fuel efficient cars and making much more use of mass transportation than we do. I feel this strengthens my argument that the higher cost of fuel forces change. Change not only in our consumption habits but also in our motivation to find alternative sources.

[cherokeered]

A new station just down the road from me is 2.41/gallon........

[tiger50]

its too cheap.....

[oldandnaked]

Did I infer that I wasn't willing to make sacrafices? In my own small ways I do. But should we sacrafice our jobs, our ability to afford groceries or electricity? I mention those things because they would have a direct effect on many.

You will get no disagreement from me that we are at war, are too dependent on foreign oil & that the price of gas that we use now will only continue rise. I also don't disagree that your initial suggestion isn't the cure all ;)

We should be more open to many small soutions. The first thing that comes to mind since it was previously mentioned here is that if you don't require a gas guzzler for work or to manuever your neck of the woods, then why have one? I am not suggesting that everyone go out and get a matchbox, but consider taking a step down to a more economical vehicle that you still feel safe having your family in. Do I really need to drive town today to run errands, or can it wait for a few more days and combine more things to do in one shot? Does the tv and lights need to be on in the room that I am not currently using? Everyone can and shoud be willing to help even if it's in small ways.


What I meant to infer was that none of us, including myself are willing to make major sacrifices similar to those made by the general American public in WWII for example. This excludes of course the families of the brave men and women and who are making the supreme sacrifice by fighting and often being killed or injured in the service of their country.

I agree whole heartedly that we all can and should make as many of the small sacrifices including the ones that you mentioned whenever possible. I think many of us decide since we feel overwhelmed by all we should do, resort to doing nothing.

[Chuck037]

someone should put a cap on gas prices, gas is way over priced.

[Shawn]

I just gave away my son to fill up my Yukon....I'll miss him

[Huzyerdaddi]

What's this have to do with the price of tea in China?