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spare_change
10-17-2007, 11:57 AM
John Schoen
Senior Producer, MSNBC

When politicians, economists, academics and journalists try to assess the current economic status of the "American middle class," the debate often begins with a question that some concede is all but impossible to answer: Who, exactly, is middle class in America today?

One way to find out is to ask Jerry Orzechowicz, a salesman in the hospitality industry, who lives in Merrillville, Ind., population 30,000, tucked in the northwest corner of the state, about 35 miles outside Chicago.

"I'm about as middle class as you can get," he said.

Orzechowicz and his wife, who also works, earn a combined annual income of between $70,000 and $90,000 and have two kids, one of whom is still in college. They own their own home, four cars and four TVs — including a high-definition widescreen model with surround sound.

Orzechowicz says just about anyone living on $50,000 a year can enjoy a middle-class existence in his neighborhood, which is why he says he’s puzzled when he hears that it’s getting harder to maintain that lifestyle in America.

“You can have a house and pay the bills and put food on the table and save a little and take a little vacation once a year," he said. "To me, that’s maybe lower end of the middle class, but it’s better than 98 percent of the people in the world.”

Despite income of $100,000, ‘We are squeezed tight’
But many Americans who consider themselves middle class told msnbc.com they do feel financially squeezed. One of them is Kathy McClain, a wife and mother of three teenagers in Westbrook, Maine.

McClain and her husband have a combined income of $100,000 a year, which leaves about $80,000 after paying income and property taxes. They have no credit card debt, don’t take expensive vacations, and she drives a 9-year-old car. Tuition for their oldest child, now at the state university, costs another $16,000. The family makes too much for her to qualify for work-study.

“I can tell you quite honestly that we are squeezed tight,” she said in a recent e-mail. “We live paycheck to paycheck. Yet, by all standards, we are doing well.”

The varied experiences of Americans who consider themselves middle class aren't really surprising. As economic and social forces buffet families chasing the American Dream, there’s disagreement among the experts who crunch the numbers about how just well or poorly this group is faring — or even who they are.

There is near-universal agreement that the gap in wealth between the richest American and the poorest is widening to levels not seen in nearly a century. But that doesn't tell you much about how those in the middle are faring.

Data aside, being “middle class” in America today appears to be mostly a state of mind. And there are very real sources of anxiety for those who aspire to a comfortable middle-class life in America.

Congress to the rescue?
With the campaign season gearing up, there’s a great deal of talk about the need for government to take a greater interest in this key demographic group. In theory, that's where the bulk of American voters are. So earlier this year, Congress asked its research service to come up with a definition of middle class.

The researchers started by looking at income levels. Based on 2005 Census Bureau reports, some 40 percent of the nearly 115 million households in the U.S. earned less than $36,000 a year. That represented just 12 percent of all income. The 40 percent on the next rung up the economic ladder took in between $36,000 and $91,705 — or about 37.6 percent of all income. The top 20 percent, who made $91,705 or more, collected half of all income.

But those numbers don’t adequately reflect the state of mind of those who consider themselves middle class. Surveys have shown that, while people consider $40,000 a year to be the low end of what it takes to buy a middle-class life, some people who make as much as $200,000 a year still consider themselves middle class, the researchers said.

In the end, they wrote, “There is no consensus definition of ‘middle class’; neither is there an official government definition. What constitutes the middle class is relative, subjective and not easily defined.”

For one thing, the report noted, there's little agreement on how many households above or below the midpoint should be included in the standard definition of the middle class.

Neighbor's paycheck as important as your own?
But it turns out that the size of your neighbor's paycheck may be as important as your own in determining how you view your place on the economic ladder. You may feel comfortably middle class — with two cars in the driveway and a big screen TV — until the guy across the street pulls up in his third car to install a second widescreen TV. (The researchers call this the "relative income hypothesis.")

"Being well above the bottom is a source of satisfaction," the CBO report concludes. "But when those at the upper end of the distribution fare better than (you) do, it is a source of consternation."

And with the upper end of that distribution rising further and faster than in the past, it's easier for those in the middle to feel like they're falling behind.

Another reason for middle class "consternation" is that income tells only part of the story: the cost of maintaining a middle-class lifestyle depends heavily on where you live. A family in Wichita, Kansas, where the median price for an existing home is about $110,000, has a much better shot at a comfortable middle-class life than a family in San Francisco where — housing slump or no housing slump — the median home price is $846,800.

The link between housing costs and schools
As the biggest single line in the typical household budget, the cost of housing has played another important role in the financial squeeze reported by many families in the middle. One of the key aspirations of middle-class families is to provide their children with the good education they’ll need to maintain — or exceed — their standard of living when they enter the work force. With local schools funded largely through property taxes, living in a nice neighborhood has come to mean more than having a nice house, according to Robert Frank, a Cornell economist and author of “Falling Behind: How Rising Inequality Harms the Middle Class.”

“You can say, 'Well, I don’t care about having a big house, I’d rather live within my budget and feel secure financially,'” he said. “If I go that route, my kids go to schools where they’ve got metal detectors, and they don’t do well in school.”

The financial security of middle-class Americans has also been strained by the rising cost of higher education, which has risen faster than overall inflation for much of the past decade.

Health care costs also have outstripped inflation; the cost of a catastrophic illness can quickly knock a middle-class household into another, better-defined economic category: poverty. And while many middle-class Americans a generation ago relied on their employers to fund their retirement, that burden has now shifted heavily to the wage-earners themselves.

spare_change
10-17-2007, 11:58 AM
The paradox behind the data
Despite these added burdens, there’s a paradox that doesn’t show up in the numbers. Though middle-class life in America isn’t what it used to be, in many ways it’s much better.

Health care may be more expensive, but modern medicine can do much more: Americans are living longer and healthier lives. Our houses, on average, are bigger (over 2,300 square feet, up 40 percent since 1980) with more cars in the driveway. Those cars are safer, last longer and are loaded with technology and features once available exclusively to the wealthiest buyers of luxury cars — from antilock brakes to GPS navigation systems.

Modern conveniences that were unimaginable a generation ago, from wireless phones to the Internet to hundreds of channels of home entertainment, are available to most Americans. The modern global supply chain brings a cornucopia of basic, affordable products — from year-round fruit shipped from both hemispheres to cheap textiles made in low-wage, developing countries.

“A middle class person today lives better than the wealthiest individual who lived 100 years ago,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist with Moody’s Economy.com.

Americans also have more to spend. Census data show that the median income has risen steadily, with temporary setbacks, over the past 60 years as "the real reward for an hour of work has more than tripled," according to a February speech by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. In 1947, median family income, in 2004 dollars, stood at just $22,500, according to the Census. By 1973, that figure had doubled, and continued to rise to $57,500 by the year 2000.

Upward march of income stalls
Those advances began to stall at the turn of the millennium, for reasons that are the subject of much speculation among economists. There’s some evidence that the decline may be caused by the lingering effects of the 2001 recession. Every major recession since World War II has been followed by a drop in median income from which it has taken between three and seven years to recover. But others suggest the lull in income growth could be the result of a more fundamental shift in the economy.

One trend that is all but universally accepted is the widening wealth disparity between those at the very top and bottom. Even as incomes in the middle have gone up, the gap between richest and poorest has gotten wider — both in America and around the world. That means that those at every level see more wealth flowing to people in income groups above them. And that could help explain why, even as everyone’s standard of living is going up, many of those in the middle feel like they’re falling behind.

Though middle class status may be largely a state of mind for many Americans, some have clearly lost ground due to specific, harsh economic circumstances that have sent them falling abruptly down the ladder. The decline of unionized labor in the past several decades has given employers more flexibility to increase productivity and adapt to rapid technological change and increased competition. But it has also devastated those workers who have been displaced from high-wage jobs and don’t have the skills they need to find a new one with comparable pay and benefits.

Now globalization poses a similar threat to the financial security of American workers whose jobs are “outsourced” to lower-wage, developing countries. Much of the credit for the current strength in the global economy goes to the elimination of trade barriers and the increased interdependence of producing and consuming countries. But if the economic benefits of that global growth flow only to a smaller and smaller group at the top, the backlash from those left behind could threaten the continued expansion of global trade, according to Zandi.

“Globalization is a fabulous thing. It raises everyone’s standard of living — it’s a net benefit to the global economy,” he said. “But there are losers. And if we don’t take care of the losers — if we don’t allow their standard of living to remain within some striking distance of the winners — then they could very well short-circuit the entire process.”

p.a
10-17-2007, 12:22 PM
The paradox behind the data
Despite these added burdens, there’s a paradox that doesn’t show up in the numbers. Though middle-class life in America isn’t what it used to be, in many ways it’s much better.

Health care may be more expensive, but modern medicine can do much more: Americans are living longer and healthier lives. Our houses, on average, are bigger (over 2,300 square feet, up 40 percent since 1980) with more cars in the driveway. Those cars are safer, last longer and are loaded with technology and features once available exclusively to the wealthiest buyers of luxury cars — from antilock brakes to GPS navigation systems.

Modern conveniences that were unimaginable a generation ago, from wireless phones to the Internet to hundreds of channels of home entertainment, are available to most Americans. The modern global supply chain brings a cornucopia of basic, affordable products — from year-round fruit shipped from both hemispheres to cheap textiles made in low-wage, developing countries.

“A middle class person today lives better than the wealthiest individual who lived 100 years ago,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist with Moody’s Economy.com.

Americans also have more to spend. Census data show that the median income has risen steadily, with temporary setbacks, over the past 60 years as "the real reward for an hour of work has more than tripled," according to a February speech by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. In 1947, median family income, in 2004 dollars, stood at just $22,500, according to the Census. By 1973, that figure had doubled, and continued to rise to $57,500 by the year 2000.

Upward march of income stalls
Those advances began to stall at the turn of the millennium, for reasons that are the subject of much speculation among economists. There’s some evidence that the decline may be caused by the lingering effects of the 2001 recession. Every major recession since World War II has been followed by a drop in median income from which it has taken between three and seven years to recover. But others suggest the lull in income growth could be the result of a more fundamental shift in the economy.

One trend that is all but universally accepted is the widening wealth disparity between those at the very top and bottom. Even as incomes in the middle have gone up, the gap between richest and poorest has gotten wider — both in America and around the world. That means that those at every level see more wealth flowing to people in income groups above them. And that could help explain why, even as everyone’s standard of living is going up, many of those in the middle feel like they’re falling behind.

Though middle class status may be largely a state of mind for many Americans, some have clearly lost ground due to specific, harsh economic circumstances that have sent them falling abruptly down the ladder. The decline of unionized labor in the past several decades has given employers more flexibility to increase productivity and adapt to rapid technological change and increased competition. But it has also devastated those workers who have been displaced from high-wage jobs and don’t have the skills they need to find a new one with comparable pay and benefits.

Now globalization poses a similar threat to the financial security of American workers whose jobs are “outsourced” to lower-wage, developing countries. Much of the credit for the current strength in the global economy goes to the elimination of trade barriers and the increased interdependence of producing and consuming countries. But if the economic benefits of that global growth flow only to a smaller and smaller group at the top, the backlash from those left behind could threaten the continued expansion of global trade, according to Zandi.

“Globalization is a fabulous thing. It raises everyone’s standard of living — it’s a net benefit to the global economy,” he said. “But there are losers. And if we don’t take care of the losers — if we don’t allow their standard of living to remain within some striking distance of the winners — then they could very well short-circuit the entire process.”

I must of been reading this guys mind. I was just thinking the same thing.
What would happen when the bottom becomes greater than the top, When the have nots become to big in number as to overpower the haves? CHAOS

spare_change
10-17-2007, 02:00 PM
I must of been reading this guys mind. I was just thinking the same thing.
What would happen when the bottom becomes greater than the top, When the have nots become to big in number as to overpower the haves? CHAOS


No -- it's called Revolution -- only happened a million times before.

mrh50
10-17-2007, 02:27 PM
when you and your wife only make 50,000 or less

p.a
10-18-2007, 01:59 PM
Who or what is the middle class: Thats the group most able and likely to buy a new car every 5 years or so. Thats the group thats most likely to buy computers, TV's, kitchen ware, a house, send there kids to college, have some kind of health insurance, and pay the most taxes of any one group in America. The middle class is the largest consumer of goods than any other group. The middle class is the safety net for the rich. What would happen to the poor and wealthy without the middle class?

p.a
10-18-2007, 01:59 PM
revolution is chaos isn't it?

Iwantutowantme
11-08-2007, 11:33 PM
Who or what is the middle class: Thats the group most able and likely to buy a new car every 5 years or so. Thats the group thats most likely to buy computers, TV's, kitchen ware, a house, send there kids to college, have some kind of health insurance, and pay the most taxes of any one group in America. The middle class is the largest consumer of goods than any other group. The middle class is the safety net for the rich. What would happen to the poor and wealthy without the middle class?


I dont think the wealthiest 2 percent want a middle class. They just want control,,,,,,,,they have plenty of money.

roadie4us
11-10-2007, 10:17 AM
Im sad to say I agree that there may be a revolution....or what I like to call a revolt. We are becoming more a more of a "have" and "have not" society with the so called middle class shrinking in the process. What frustrates me is that while the upper class, or "haves", is getting bigger, the are getting less and less patriotic. They dont seem to care about the good of our country, and how to preserve it. They seem to be selling out the american dream for corporate greed, out-sourcing, and moving corporate headquarters to a foreign country to save on paying taxes. How many millions of dollars profit is enough. The really sad part is our government is encouraging this behavior and going right along with it. Its the global market you know....we just have to get used to it. Well, I like to think most of us love this country and support it....so maybe there will be a "revolt", hopfully in the voting booth.

spare_change
11-10-2007, 12:26 PM
Im sad to say I agree that there may be a revolution....or what I like to call a revolt. We are becoming more a more of a "have" and "have not" society with the so called middle class shrinking in the process. What frustrates me is that while the upper class, or "haves", is getting bigger, the are getting less and less patriotic. They dont seem to care about the good of our country, and how to preserve it. They seem to be selling out the american dream for corporate greed, out-sourcing, and moving corporate headquarters to a foreign country to save on paying taxes. How many millions of dollars profit is enough. The really sad part is our government is encouraging this behavior and going right along with it. Its the global market you know....we just have to get used to it. Well, I like to think most of us love this country and support it....so maybe there will be a "revolt", hopfully in the voting booth.


Sir -- while I may disagree with some of your points, I thank you for a reasoned and intelligent comment. I was beginning to think it was the Klingons' fault.

PunkyBob
11-10-2007, 12:35 PM
Im sad to say I agree that there may be a revolution....or what I like to call a revolt. We are becoming more a more of a "have" and "have not" society with the so called middle class shrinking in the process. What frustrates me is that while the upper class, or "haves", is getting bigger, the are getting less and less patriotic. They dont seem to care about the good of our country, and how to preserve it. They seem to be selling out the american dream for corporate greed, out-sourcing, and moving corporate headquarters to a foreign country to save on paying taxes. How many millions of dollars profit is enough. The really sad part is our government is encouraging this behavior and going right along with it. Its the global market you know....we just have to get used to it. Well, I like to think most of us love this country and support it....so maybe there will be a "revolt", hopfully in the voting booth.

Was there really ever an "American Dream" or is that just another Hallmark concept? The rich get rich through whatever means possible...look at history, look at the rich today...our government is a government of the rich..who else better to enable the rest of the top 1% to remain there?

I love my country, but I think at the moment it is seriously in trouble...maybe the worst it's ever been in...but I support it nevrtheless and work towards it's betterment.

oldandnaked
11-11-2007, 08:50 AM
Was there really ever an "American Dream" or is that just another Hallmark concept? The rich get rich through whatever means possible...look at history, look at the rich today...our government is a government of the rich..who else better to enable the rest of the top 1% to remain there?

I love my country, but I think at the moment it is seriously in trouble...maybe the worst it's ever been in...but I support it nevrtheless and work towards it's betterment.

I believe there was and still is an "American Dream". It's this American's dream that we start using our vast but steadily shrinking resources for the good of this country instead of to its detriment. We could start by rebuilding our deteriorating infrastructure. This would not only make us safer and more viable but also aid the economy by generating jobs for our workers and local businesses. Next we need to take a long and serious look at our education system. Without our students being highly trained in math and science we will continue to fall further behind the Chinese, Indians, etc. One way to accomplish this is to make teaching a more attractive profession by awarding qualified instructors accordingly.

Granted these are expensive propositions but the funds are there, we just need to redirect our current spending. Like my dear old, departed dad use to say, "All politicians like to spend our money, the difference between them is how they spend it".

With more jobs and a better educational system this country and in particular its' middle class may have some hope yet. George Carlin recently stated that as a nation we were "circling the drain". Lets not turn him into a prophet.

Postman
11-11-2007, 09:43 AM
The middle class is a myth.
There are 2 classes.
Those that have more than they really need.
And those of use that would like some of what we need.

PunkyBob
11-11-2007, 03:56 PM
I believe there was and still is an "American Dream". It's this American's dream that we start using our vast but steadily shrinking resources for the good of this country instead of to its detriment. We could start by rebuilding our deteriorating infrastructure. This would not only make us safer and more viable but also aid the economy by generating jobs for our workers and local businesses. Next we need to take a long and serious look at our education system. Without our students being highly trained in math and science we will continue to fall further behind the Chinese, Indians, etc. One way to accomplish this is to make teaching a more attractive profession by awarding qualified instructors accordingly.

Granted these are expensive propositions but the funds are there, we just need to redirect our current spending. Like my dear old, departed dad use to say, "All politicians like to spend our money, the difference between them is how they spend it".

With more jobs and a better educational system this country and in particular its' middle class may have some hope yet. George Carlin recently stated that as a nation we were "circling the drain". Lets not turn him into a prophet.

Bravo...Well said. I stand corrected.

p.a
11-11-2007, 04:53 PM
Why can't we do this in america anymore?

http://guide.theemiratesnetwork.com/living/dubai/images/the_palm/palm_jumeirah.jpg

tom33
11-27-2007, 09:18 AM
not me, i'm going from lower to upper.

1hotmommy
11-27-2007, 10:48 AM
I used to be what most people would call middle-class, now I'm so poor it's pathetic lol

p.a
11-27-2007, 11:42 AM
We use to be middle class. Now we're mostly broke.

Iwantutowantme
11-30-2007, 11:52 PM
The middle class is any one or any family that stands in the way of the rich getting richer.............

spare_change
01-06-2008, 01:38 PM
From George Will's column on January 6, 2008 ---

Economist Stephen Rose, defining the middle class as households with annual incomes between $30,000 and $100,000, says a smaller percentage of Americans are in that category than in 1979 -- because the percentage of Americans earning more than $100,000 has doubled from 12 to 24, while the percentage earning less than $30,000 is unchanged. "So," Rose says, "the entire 'decline' of the middle class came from people moving up the income ladder." Even as housing values declined in 2007, the net worth of households increased.

Huckabee told heavily subsidized Iowa -- Washington's ethanol enthusiasm has farm values and incomes soaring -- that Americans striving to rise are "pushed down every time they try by their own government." Edwards, synthetic candidate of theatrical bitterness on behalf of America's crushed, groaning majority, says the rich have an "iron-fisted grip" on democracy and a "stranglehold" on the economy. Strangely, these fists have imposed a tax code that makes the top 1 percent of earners pay 39 percent of all income tax revenues, the top 5 percent pay 60 percent, and the bottom 50 percent pay only 3 percent.

Kinda shoots the whole "oppression of the middle class" argument in the ass, don't you think?

cloudrunner
01-06-2008, 01:42 PM
2

tt
01-06-2008, 06:28 PM
My wife earns $85,000.00 a year as a director for a non-profit here in the S.F. Bay Area. I'm a stay at home husband. I retired due to a job related injury several years ago, on her salary we can afford our home and her employer provides medical/dental.


She works very hard, and with her retirement approaching we are seriously considering re-locating to Costa Rica, the cost of medical is less and our money would go farther.

Medical Care cost in the U.S. is beyond belief. As a nation, we are one of few, if not the only Modern Industrial Nation that does not provide Universal Health Care. Too insurance companies saying no, pre-existing conditions and all that crap.

We're lucky we don't have kids to have to put through college, it would bankrupt us.

cherokeered
01-06-2008, 07:25 PM
middle class....too rich for assistance and too poor to afford anything....:(

Nick182
01-07-2008, 01:52 PM
There's still a middle class? just kidding...

seriously though... At one time a majority of the U.S. population was considered to be middle class. Today I'm not sure though. It seems today more then ever either people are just barely making ends meet or people are financially well off.

To me, middle class is being able to pay your bills, provide food and cloths for your family and save for your retirement (of course this assumes people who know how to live within their means). Most people I know today are having a very hard time paying their bills and have no savings.

This country has been put into so much debt by this administration, and the "middle class" is severely being hurt. If things don't change real soon... I see a recession in our near future... Normally Costco hires thousands of tempory employees during the holiday season, this past year they didn't hire any & fired hundreds of their fulltime employees because their sales are down. People can't afford to spend money anymore, or are afraid too... either way it's bad!!!

JCDxn
01-07-2008, 04:53 PM
middle class....too rich for assistance and too poor to afford anything....:(
very true statment..