Death Penalty

[Shiane]

I saw this on the news last night. This man killed a 62 yr old lady and has been on death row for over 16 years and now he has filed a law suit claiming that lethal injection is cruel and unususal punishement.

Don Davis was sentenced to death for the 1990 execution-style killing of Jane Daniels of Rogers, Arkansas. Committing a series of burglaries, Don William Davis broke into the Rogers home of Jane Martha Daniel, 62, on Oct. 12, 1990. Using a .44 caliber Magnum revolver he had stolen earlier, he shot her once in the head in a storeroom in her house. Richard Daniel found his wife dead in the basement when he returned home that night from a business trip. Davis was arrested in New Mexico after his roommates went to the police with their suspicions about his involvement. Most of the stolen objects were recovered and traced back to Davis. A jury convicted Davis of capital murder March 6, 1992. Davis had a previous execution date set in November 1999. UPDATE: Federal judge Susan Seber Wright granted Davis a stay to pursue claims that lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment.

A spokesman from the Arkansas dept of Corrections said that even if lethal injection was found unconstitutional, it would revert back to the electric chair.

During the interview he said he would rather be on a beach in the Bahamas sipping margaritas. He said that he wouldn't want to be electrocuted either, he thought that would be too painful. Personally I don't think he should be allowed to file a law suit to try and save his ass. He showed no mercy on the innocent woman, whos life he so violently took.

Where is the justice? :spbx:

[MIGHTY]

Death Row inmate files law suit that lethal injection is cruel & unusual punishment.....

And to think, he is also spending the tax payer's money to do this.....:nu

Some people think the world owes them.....and that will never change, unfortunatley.......

[OICurready4me]

I think it would be even better to put them in front of a firing squad, that way they can complain about dying of lead poisoning. Frigging nitwits. They shouldnt be on death row for 16 years as it is. Fry, drug or shoot their ass within a couple years, save us taxpayers a great deal of money.

[Shiane]

I think it would be even better to put them in front of a firing squad, that way they can complain about dying of lead poisoning. Frigging nitwits. They shouldnt be on death row for 16 years as it is. Fry, drug or shoot their ass within a couple years, save us taxpayers a great deal of money.


Spending 16 years on death row is rediculous! No punishment is too cruel for his blatant disregard of human life. The idiotic Federal Judge should be kicked to the curb for even persuing this! :nu

[cherokeered]

This does not surprise me.....we are a land where once proven guilty....you are no longer responsible for your actions....


We treat our criminals better than we do our every day citizens...and this country is lawsuit happy....I personally may just file a suit against that judge for angering me...thereby causing me mental duress....lol

[Shiane]

I personally may just file a suit against that judge for angering me...thereby causing me mental duress....lol



LOL I think we could file a class action suit!

[Frenchie]

This is only my toughts about guilty serious offenders, they should post a sign when you enter a jail that states

Chart of human rights stopped and that line behind you, sorry!

Enjoy your stay!

I hate to say it cause I'm the first to lend a helping hand but you know what, I hold no sympathy for hard core offenders. petty crimes is one thing and sometimes circomstances made things go out of hands but if you kill someone and there's no doubt about your crime...sorry but that was a choice that person made and therefor should face the concequenses of they're actions.

Up here they have a better life style then a low income family.

I'll find the story but they caught a familly of amish people trying to imigrate illegally and essencially where stuck that if you put them in jail they would of had a better life style then in they're community! lol go figure.

[Annie]

Personally I think he should be put to death in the same manner in which he put his victim to death. Cruel and unusual punishment is what he offered her, cruel and unusual punishment should be his as well. What's that saying about an eye for an eye?

[learman3]

Personally I think he should be put to death in the same manner in which he put his victim to death. Cruel and unusual punishment is what he offered her, cruel and unusual punishment should be his as well. What's that saying about an eye for an eye?

Remind me never to get on your bad side. ;)

I do agree though, let the punishment fit the crime.

[Kissie]

I am rude...I say fry the bastard!!!!!!!!!

[Annie]

Remind me never to get on your bad side. ;)

I do agree though, let the punishment fit the crime.Oh sweetie, it would take an awful lot for you to get on my bad side! I can assure you this much though, killing a member of my family would do it.

[dartgirl]

It really is sad that they treat the criminals so good in this country, mostly at the tax payer expense. Once you are convicted of a capital crime your personal rights should be over. 16 years is to long for this to have went on anyway. If the appeal process was shorter our jails would be a lot less crowded.

[unctarheel_32]

Do you think that marine that killed that female marine should get the death penalty.He raped her killed her and burnt the body,and she was pregnant.

[unctarheel_32]

I think they should put him to death I sure do.

[OICurready4me]

Do you think that marine that killed that female marine should get the death penalty.He raped her killed her and burnt the body,and she was pregnant.


yeah, he should get the death penalty...after being tortured for a while since that is what her put her through first. Give him a dose of his own medicine.

[Postman]

I think anyone that takes anouthers life and there is no doubt.
SHOULD FRY.
Burn the basterd.

[Annie]

Sorry, but I don't think so.

[Postman]

Oh no lets let him go after serving time with good behavior.
Yea thats the good christian way.
NUTS to that.
An eye for an eye, A tooth for a tooth.

[Annie]

Oh no lets let him go after serving time with good behavior.
Yea thats the good christian way.
NUTS to that.
An eye for an eye, A tooth for a tooth. In the great state of Illinois, we have a sentence called "Life WithOUT Parole". Who the hell said anything about letting him go?

[Postman]

He's not in Illinois is he?

[OICurready4me]

In the great state of Illinois, we have a sentence called "Life WithOUT Parole". Who the hell said anything about letting him go?


And the taxpayers have to pay to house this jerk for 30 or 40 years? Hell, whats 1000 volts shooting through his system going to cost? About the cost of using your microwave oven to pop a bag of popcorn, probably. I say, fry the bastard.

[private beaches]

All I know is we are too way to humane to criminals like this and we end footing the bill for their cable tv and their exercise class in prison!!!!! Dont get me started on this

[Annie]

And the taxpayers have to pay to house this jerk for 30 or 40 years? Hell, whats 1000 volts shooting through his system going to cost? About the cost of using your microwave oven to pop a bag of popcorn, probably. I say, fry the bastard. Figure it out... what is the cost of all those appeals that he a right to, then figure out how much it costs to house him. The difference is not that great.

Also ask yourself why we are one of the only countries in the western hemisphere that has the death penalty. They think along the same lines I do, the death penalty is barbaric. If killing someone is wrong, why do we do it?

[Corvid]

It can cost several times more to execute a person than to incarcerate him for life. Death penalties are minimally deterrent, there's no reversing mistakes in the criminal justice system, and there is no possibility of the convicted of experiencing remorse once he is dead. Moreover, it stinks of revenge rather than justice. An 'eye for an eye' is a vestige a brutal tribal culture that I associate with groups like the Taliban. I'd rather not settle things by hate-fueled blood feuds, thanks.

[Pebbles]

He's not in Illinois is he?

Last I heard he wasn't even in the United States. They thought he was in Mexico!

I have to agree with Annie on this death penalty. I don't believe in it... "Life WithOUT Parole" is what I would do with him.

[Annie]

It can cost several times more to execute a person than to incarcerate him for life. Death penalties are minimally deterrent, there's no reversing mistakes in the criminal justice system, and there is no possibility of the convicted of experiencing remorse once he is dead. Moreover, it stinks of revenge rather than justice. An 'eye for an eye' is a vestige a brutal tribal culture that I associate with groups like the Taliban. I'd rather not settle things by hate-fueled blood feuds, thanks. Very well said! Thank you!!

[tt]

And exactly how many of you who think the guy should be subject to state-sponsered murder, also believe in the "Right To Life"?

Capital Punishment (State Sanctioned Murder) will not the change facts, or bring the female Marine back to her family. Who kills the killer, that killed the killers, that killed the killers?

I would be more than will to support State Sanctioned Murder, if the State, which is so proud and willing to do the deed, would just as willing to put murder on Television, live and in color for all to watch.

But because the State (California has had several attempts by local radio and television stations to broadcast the implementation of the act of state sanctioned murder) is so ashamed of the act, that it is carried in cold dark of midnight, and only a chosen to few allowed to watch.

You want Capital Punishment, then demand that you get to watch it as well.

[Fargo...really]

One of the problems with "life without parole" is that it often isn't.

We had a guy near here who was "sent away for life" that was let out after 20 years, went to the nearest mall and sexually molested and killed a beautiful young college co-ed.

This time they are putting him up to be executed. Will it prevent others from doing what he did? Maybe, maybe not, but it it has a higher probability of preventing HIM from doing it again.

I respect alternative opinions on this topic, just stating mine.

[stucknmarriage74(f)]

I definitely believe he should be put to death...If he were in another country they wouldnt think twice about it...hell they'd cut off your hand for stealing!!!

[Nick182]

If he doesn't get the death penalty, then they better at least cut off his genitals for rapping her. I vote for the death penalty though!

[hank69]

If it was my wife... or children....and I , was there ... I would kill him or be killed in the process.

If I wasn't .. I could not Flip the switch to fry him...

[Annie]

I definitely believe he should be put to death...If he were in another country they wouldnt think twice about it...hell they'd cut off your hand for stealing!!! Maybe, maybe not. According to Wikipedia....

At one time capital punishment was used in almost every part of the globe, but over the last few decades many countries have abolished it. Amnesty International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International) classifies countries into four categories.

62 countries still maintain the death penalty in both law and practice.
91 countries have abolished it completely.
11 retain it, but only for crimes committed in exceptional circumstances (such as crimes committed in time of war).
33 countries maintain laws permitting the use of the death penalty for ordinary crimes, but have allowed the death penalty to fall into disuse for at least 10 years.

[Postman]

And most groups complain that we treat criminals badly.
Give me a break.
They are criminals. Make them suffer.

[Pebbles]

Don't know if anyone saw this news article..but if this marine is arrested in Mexico the death penalty is out!



CNN) -- Suspected killer Marine Cpl. Cesar Laurean is most likely in Mexico, authorities said, and the prosecutor said he has agreed not to seek the death penalty if Laurean is arrested in that country.
Onslow County, North Carolina, District Attorney Dewey Hudson told CNN that he was shown "strongly compelling evidence" compiled by federal authorities that shows Laurean is in Mexico.

Hudson said he has asked through the State Department that Laurean be arrested if he is found in Mexico. But, he said, he had "no other option" but to take the death penalty off the table if Laurean is found there.

Mexico has a longstanding record of refusing to extradite suspects to the United States if they face a possible death sentence if convicted.

"I had to agree not to seek the death penalty," Hudson told CNN. "My hands were tied if I wanted to bring him here to face murder charges."

"It was very frustrating and disappointing," Hudson added.

Laurean has been charged with murder in the death of Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach. Her charred remains were found January 11 in a fire pit in Laurean's backyard.

Investigators found the body after Laurean's wife came forward with a note her husband had written saying he had buried Lauterbach, who was eight months pregnant, after she slit her own throat during an argument.

Hudson said Laurean apparently entered his native Mexico only days after leaving behind that note.

Hudson would not elaborate on the evidence suggesting Laurean is in Mexico, which he said he viewed Friday. The FBI would not comment on what evidence it might have that Laurean is across the border.

"We strongly suspect, but have not confirmed, he is in Mexico," FBI spokesman Newsom Summerlin.

Summerlin said the FBI plans to circulate in Mexico either matchbooks or business cards with Laurean's photo. The Marine's wanted poster is on the FBI's Most Wanted List with a $25,000 reward.

Police believe Lauterbach was killed December 14, the same day she bought a bus ticket for travel for the following day. But in the note provided to police by Laurean's wife, the corporal claimed Lauterbach killed herself December 15.

Police said an autopsy revealed the pregnant Marine was killed by a blow to the head. Police said they are analyzing a possible murder weapon provided by an undisclosed witness. A spokesman told CNN it could several weeks to determine whether it was used to kill Lauterbach.

Laurean's wife told police about the note January 11, a day after she said Laurean told her what allegedly happened and following a meeting with a lawyer. Police describe her as a cooperating witness.

Lauterbach was scheduled to testify last month at a military hearing after accusing Laurean of raping her last spring.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/21/missing.marine/index.html

[spare_change]

And exactly how many of you who think the guy should be subject to state-sponsered murder, also believe in the "Right To Life"?

Capital Punishment (State Sanctioned Murder) will not the change facts, or bring the female Marine back to her family. Who kills the killer, that killed the killers, that killed the killers?

I would be more than will to support State Sanctioned Murder, if the State, which is so proud and willing to do the deed, would just as willing to put murder on Television, live and in color for all to watch.

But because the State (California has had several attempts by local radio and television stations to broadcast the implementation of the act of state sanctioned murder) is so ashamed of the act, that it is carried in cold dark of midnight, and only a chosen to few allowed to watch.

You want Capital Punishment, then demand that you get to watch it as well.

I would be one of those who believe 1) in the "right to life", and 2) the death penalty.

How do I rationalize the two? Simple - the unborn are innocent of wrongdoing, while the criminal has forfeited his right to life through his own choice.

You call it "state sponsored murder". I call it the rightful end of a person who has is such a danger to others, such a sociopathic misfit, that, in the interest of safety and security, the individual must be eliminated.

I'm not going to pretend that there is even one iota of crime prevention in it --- most people who commit crimes that warrant the death penalty would not be swayed by the presence, or lack of, a death penalty.

The death penalty is just that ... a penalty. It is the price you must pay for doing something so abhorrent to society, something so heinous that you have demonstrated no hope for redemption. It is, simply, the consequences you pay for your actions.

Gonna make me watch the Marine die? Tell you what -- if you prefer, I'll push the button .... and sleep like the baby I prevented from being aborted.

[spare_change]

Don't know if anyone saw this news article..but if this marine is arrested in Mexico the death penalty is out!



CNN) -- Suspected killer Marine Cpl. Cesar Laurean is most likely in Mexico, authorities said, and the prosecutor said he has agreed not to seek the death penalty if Laurean is arrested in that country.
Onslow County, North Carolina, District Attorney Dewey Hudson told CNN that he was shown "strongly compelling evidence" compiled by federal authorities that shows Laurean is in Mexico.

Hudson said he has asked through the State Department that Laurean be arrested if he is found in Mexico. But, he said, he had "no other option" but to take the death penalty off the table if Laurean is found there.
..................

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/21/missing.marine/index.html

Mexico has taken a position at the World Court that it will not allow people to be returned to the US to face the death penalty.

That isn't a comment on their civility -- that's a method of protecting their citizens who commit crimes in the US. I suspect there is more than just a smidgeon of economics and self protection involved in that position.

The country of Mexico has been sued four times, and lost four times in US courts, for not providing sufficient border management that allowed a Mexican citizen to illegally enter the US and commit crimes that resulted in wrongful death. The US government was also named a litigant in each of those suits, and was found culpable, in each of those cases.

The latest case, which resulted in the death of a 14 year old girl in San Diego to an illegal drunk driver, occurred in 2003. The wrongful death suit revealed that at that time, Mexico still had the death penalty option in their country, but because of the double standard, were affording protective status to illegal aliens in the US. That was a major determinant in the decision. They hurriedly removed the penalty from the books in order to minimize their liability for the actions of their citizens while in this country.

Governments don't do something because it's right -- they do something because it's right ...... for them.

[razorsedge]

You know....that's what's wrong with this country. Too leaniant. If we did what other countries did for punishment people would be a little more hasty in committing a crime. Like lose a hand for stealing....would you steal knowing that you could lose your hand for just stealing? I wouldn't. We need to stand up and start punishing people without any remose or care since there was no remose or care when the crime was committed.

So my though on the question from unc.....shove broomstick up the guys ass....kill him....then light the broom on fire.

That's my belief....you asked.

[jimmy-love-fl]

[QUOTE=traveler52]And exactly how many of you who think the guy should be subject to state-sponsered murder, also believe in the "Right To Life"?

QUOTE]

Wow! Talk about 2 completely different arguments! Not that I am siding with either side, but what the heck did a fetus ever do to hurt anybody?

As far as the Death Penalty question is concerned. If I ever get to be so evil that I can rape a girl and then kill her and her unborn child to cover it up, then take off to Mexico, then you are all welcome to fry me or do whatever the hell you want to do to me. I am all for trying to rehabilitate people, but if someone did something like this and came to realize how horrible it was that they did it, then they would also come to realize that they deserve whater they get. Of course what they deserve and what they get. I guess that is the real argument. I don't think anyone would argue that he does not deserve to die. So in the end I am for the death penalty, but I am also for mercy in certain situations, and think it should be used sparingly.

Just so everyone knows, the death penalty was taken away in Illinois, because they were finding out about so many false convictions, not because they thought it was wrong. I would hate to think that someone was killed, because of a false conviction.

[Annie]

[QUOTE=traveler52]And exactly how many of you who think the guy should be subject to state-sponsered murder, also believe in the "Right To Life"?

QUOTE]

Wow! Talk about 2 completely different arguments! Not that I am siding with either side, but what the heck did a fetus ever do to hurt anybody?

As far as the Death Penalty question is concerned. If I ever get to be so evil that I can rape a girl and then kill her and her unborn child to cover it up, then take off to Mexico, then you are all welcome to fry me or do whatever the hell you want to do to me. I am all for trying to rehabilitate people, but if someone did something like this and came to realize how horrible it was that they did it, then they would also come to realize that they deserve whater they get. Of course what they deserve and what they get. I guess that is the real argument. I don't think anyone would argue that he does not deserve to die. So in the end I am for the death penalty, but I am also for mercy in certain situations, and think it should be used sparingly.

Just so everyone knows, the death penalty was taken away in Illinois, because they were finding out about so many false convictions, not because they thought it was wrong. I would hate to think that someone was killed, because of a false conviction. What do you think was happening before we had DNA to clear people wrongly convicted? Why do you think Northwestern University set up a program to help those wrongly convicted in Illinois?

These states have already abolished it: Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. The District of Columbia also doesn't have the death penalty. I can't help but think, that in our lifetime it will abolished in every state.

[TIGUY]

I haven't heard anyone looking at a totally different aspect of this whole thing....what kind of message do we send by telling others that if you kill, we will lock you up for life...this is what some of them probably want because they have no life, no money, etc...and it also does not deter someone from deciding to kill when they know their lives will be spared. I feel there are victims lives out there that can possibly be saved in this respect

Taking the life of those who kill may not be the right thing to do, but we need to look at all aspects and if it can save other lives, then we need to expand our minds and not close them to the death penalty....just as we have expanded them to spare the lives of killers and allow them three meals a day, a bed , and recreational activities (in some cases)....things their victims no longer enjoy.

My thoughts...obviously


Maybe, maybe not. According to Wikipedia....

At one time capital punishment was used in almost every part of the globe, but over the last few decades many countries have abolished it. Amnesty International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International) classifies countries into four categories.

62 countries still maintain the death penalty in both law and practice.
91 countries have abolished it completely.
11 retain it, but only for crimes committed in exceptional circumstances (such as crimes committed in time of war).
33 countries maintain laws permitting the use of the death penalty for ordinary crimes, but have allowed the death penalty to fall into disuse for at least 10 years.

[jimmy-love-fl]

[QUOTE=jimmy_love_fl] What do you think was happening before we had DNA to clear people wrongly convicted? Why do you think Northwestern University set up a program to help those wrongly convicted in Illinois?

These states have already abolished it: Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. The District of Columbia also doesn't have the death penalty. I can't help but think, that in our lifetime it will abolished in every state.

I totally agree, but those are 2 different arguments. To be against the death penalty because of wrongful convictions or because it is too inhumane. I don't find it inhumane at all. I think anyone that kills deserves to die. But I am also glad I don't always get what I deserve, so I believe that mercy can be very powerful and I would like to think that our country has mercy on people. Having said all of that you are fighting a losing battle with someone that thinks multiple sex offenders should be castrated. and I am not just saying that, I really believe it. It is the best known defense against future incidents. Enough about my beliefs though. Nice to see someone with some passionate thoughts.

[Annie]

[QUOTE=Annie]

I totally agree, but those are 2 different arguments. To be against the death penalty because of wrongful convictions or because it is too inhumane. I don't find it inhumane at all. I think anyone that kills deserves to die. But I am also glad I don't always get what I deserve, so I believe that mercy can be very powerful and I would like to think that our country has mercy on people. Having said all of that you are fighting a losing battle with someone that thinks multiple sex offenders should be castrated. and I am not just saying that, I really believe it. It is the best known defense against future incidents. Enough about my beliefs though. Nice to see someone with some passionate thoughts.
Yeah, you're right... those are two arguments against the death penalty.... and I can think of a few more. My problem is that I can't think of a single reason for me to be FOR the death penalty!

[Annie]

[QUOTE=Annie]
Having said all of that you are fighting a losing battle with someone that thinks multiple sex offenders should be castrated. and I am not just saying that, I really believe it. It is the best known defense against future incidents. Enough about my beliefs though. Nice to see someone with some passionate thoughts. Wow... I missed the last part of your post....
Castration won't work in the way that you think it might. You're looking at rape as a sexual offence and it's not, perhaps it is for the woman, but it isn't. Rape is an act of violence, it isn't really about sex for the rapist. Castrate the offender and he'll find another form of violence... just like an addict finds another drug of choice when the first choice is not available.

[jimmy-love-fl]

[QUOTE=jimmy_love_fl]
Yeah, you're right... those are two arguments against the death penalty.... and I can think of a few more. My problem is that I can't think of a single reason for me to be FOR the death penalty!

Then keep preachin it!

[Postman]

Annie If something ever happens close to you sometime maybe you'll change your mind.
And if not keep chugging.
To each their own.
Till then.
I vote burn him.
Maybe someone should do a vote on the site to see what the majority of idea's real is..

[spare_change]

[QUOTE=jimmy_love_fl] What do you think was happening before we had DNA to clear people wrongly convicted? Why do you think Northwestern University set up a program to help those wrongly convicted in Illinois?

These states have already abolished it: Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wisconsin. The District of Columbia also doesn't have the death penalty. I can't help but think, that in our lifetime it will abolished in every state.

There are two phases to a trial -- the guilt determination phase, and the sentencing phase.

The application of a sentence necessarily presumes that the guilt determination phase was accurate, and is a given fact.

Mitigating the punishment for a crime because a person may not be guilty is a case of apples and oranges. If you don't like the fact that some innocent people may have been incarcerated (and nobody does), change the guilt determination criteria --- don't change the punishment.

If, however, you believe that murder or treason does not justify the death penalty, then campaign to have it removed.

But, don't confuse the two -- and don't change one because the other is not concrete.

[Mer-man]

If it was my wife... or children....and I , was there ... I would kill him or be killed in the process.

If I wasn't .. I could not Flip the switch to fry him...

I think this rings true for me too. I would be aiming for personal vengeance if it were one of my own family. But I too don't think I could flick the switch.

I prefer the idea of life-without-parole. My dislike of the death penalty is it puts us in the place of the murderer. My other bone of contention is that they have done more research on humane ways to kill cows, sheep, pigs and chickens for our food than they have to put a man to death.

On the subject of cost, why should it cost the tax payer a fortune? I think the Romans had a pretty good solution. All those who want to fight and kill, fine, lock them in an arena and let them fight. Winner eats, loser gets released from misery! The rest of us are left outside with our taxes intact, our morals secure and our daughters safe!

I live in the UK. I don't know how it is in the US. But I'm guessing with the litigous culture a criminal who breaks into your home and reaks his leg 'cos your kid left their tricycle in the doorway could sue you? Well it happens here regularly and there is definitely a feeling that the human rights of the criminal are now ranked above those of the victim.

I don't have the answers, but that's the way it seems.

[jimmy-love-fl]

Oh I could turn the switch if someone did it to someone I loved. The question would be wether he would live long enough to see that day.

[Annie]

Annie If something ever happens close to you sometime maybe you'll change your mind.
And if not keep chugging.
To each their own.
Till then.
I vote burn him.
Maybe someone should do a vote on the site to see what the majority of idea's real is..Don't confuse justice with revenge. If I would change my mind at that point, it would be based on emotion, rather than careful consideration on my part.

I believe that killing is wrong. It's just that simple.

[piman]

I think anyone that takes anouthers life and there is no doubt.
SHOULD FRY.
Burn the basterd.

So, your are saying that anyone who has or commits an abortion should fry? You can't be pro-life and support the death penalty.

[spare_change]

So, your are saying that anyone who has or commits an abortion should fry? You can't be pro-life and support the death penalty.


Yes, I can and yes, I am, and yes, I sleep just fine.

[phantasm]

I was stationed in Jacksonville for around 3 years when I was in the Corps. Every time I see that story pop up I start looking for things I recognize, and on occasion see something that spurs my memory. I do think he should get the death penalty, but I know he won't due to Mexico's extradition policy. He will rot in jail.

[Annie]

So, your are saying that anyone who has or commits an abortion should fry? You can't be pro-life and support the death penalty.
Apples and oranges, my friend. It depends on when you personally believe that life begins. If you believe that life begins at conception, you may feel differently about abortion than a person who believes life begins at birth. If you believe that upon conception, the fetus is given a soul, that soul is the most innocent of all, just as if it had been already born.

It might questioned, that a cold-blooded killer even has a soul left... much easier justifying pulling the plug on, now isn't it?

[piman]

Hi Annie,

The issue of abortion is distantly related, and probably shouldn't have been brought up, I was being a smart ass as the quote was so open ended.

It should be pointed out that in the U.S. like Canada, and other western democracies every individual has a right to life, even murderers. There will those who say that being locked up for 50 years is not much of a life, and they are probably right, but that is where the punishment aspect comes in.

The death penalty does not deter murder. If it did then one would be less likely to be murdered in Florida, which has the death penalty, than Michigan which doesn't. That clearly is not the case.

The death penalty in the States appears to be discriminatory. The poor, minorities, and the metally handicapped are more often given the death penalty than richer, white folk. So the application of the penalty is in itself unjust.

Juries make mistakes all the time. Look at the sheer number of people convicted who were later found to be innocent either by DNA or other evidence coming out. For instance, Shabak Wagline spent eleven years on death row in Florida before he was found wrongly convicted. What would could have been done if he had been executed? Would people go to his grave and say "Sorry we f*cked up."? Would it help him?

Finally the cost of executing some one is usually much more expensive than keeping them locked up for life. A 2005 Los Angeles Times study found that California Spends $250 million per execution. A different study in Florida in 1988 found that then it cost about $3.2 million to execute someone, but only around $520,000 to imprison the same offender for life.

I am not advocating to treat the offender(s) with "kid gloves" but the death penalty is a terminal solution. Once done, there is no way to undo it, and given that everyone has a right to life executing one innocent is one too many.

[Annie]

Hi Annie,

The death penalty in the States appears to be discriminatory. The poor, minorities, and the metally handicapped are more often given the death penalty than richer, white folk. So the application of the penalty is in itself unjust.

Juries make mistakes all the time. Look at the sheer number of people convicted who were later found to be innocent either by DNA or other evidence coming out. For instance, Shabak Wagline spent eleven years on death row in Florida before he was found wrongly convicted. What would could have been done if he had been executed? Would people go to his grave and say "Sorry we f*cked up."? Would it help him?

I am not advocating to treat the offender(s) with "kid gloves" but the death penalty is a terminal solution. Once done, there is no way to undo it, and given that everyone has a right to life executing one innocent is one too many. Hey, I'm from Illinois, I know exactly what you're talking about.... God, I can't believe it's been right around 5 years already... Check out what Gov. Ryan did before they locked him up!!

Emptying Death Row

When Illinois’ Governor commuted 156 death sentences last week, he thrust the national debate over the death penalty into new territory, says a nationally-renowned Tufts expert.

Medford/Somerville, Mass.

[01-17-03] In a dramatic decision last week, outgoing Illinois Governor George Ryan emptied the state’s death row just days before leaving office. The move – which resulted in both public praise and outcry – thrust the debate over capital punishment into new territory, says a nationally-renowned Tufts expert.

“What is going to happen is a national dialogue on this.” Hugo Bedau (http://ase.tufts.edu/philosophy/faculty.htm%20/%20BEDAU) – a professor emeritus at Tufts and a death-penalty opponent – told the Christian Science Monitor. “We’re going to be forced to talk about the facts of the death penalty.”

Those facts are at the very core of the national debate.

Citing the recently released findings of a state commission he convened in 2000, which recommended 85 reforms to Illinois’ capital punishment system, Ryan questioned the fairness of the punishment.

“Because the Illinois death penalty system is arbitrary and capricious – and therefore immoral – I no longer shall tinker with the machinery of death,” the governor – a former death penalty supporter – said in his statement. “… If the system was making so many errors in determining whether someone was guilty in the first place, how fairly and accurately was it determining which guilty defendants deserved to live and which deserved to die?”

His view appears to be gaining ground around the country.

“A majority still supports the death penalty, but the tide appears to be turning slowly and the American Bar Association has called for a national moratorium,” reported the Washington Post. “In 2001, only half as many death sentences were applied as in 1998.”

But few expected a move as dramatic as commuting 163 sentences at once.

“[The decision was] the most remarkable political act against the death penalty by any governor in our history,” Bedau told the Post.

While governors have broad commuting powers, Bedau said Ryan’s use of them was quite unusual.

“It has almost ceased being an option,” Bedau told the newspaper.

[Pebbles]

So, your are saying that anyone who has or commits an abortion should fry? You can't be pro-life and support the death penalty.

Don't agree what you have stated! Know lots of people who are pro-life who support the death penalty.

[Shiane]

I have avoided this subject because it thoroughly makes my blood pressure sky high. A while back i started a thread about lethal injection being called cruel. So I merged these two threads together.

[Shiane]

Am I an advocate for the death penalty, you bet your ass I am!

Any person who commits murder should not spend the rest of their lives on death row getting appeal after appeal. They should not be sentenced to life in prison without parole.

I don't care who you are, if you don't respect the life of another human being then you don't deserve to live. If you take a life, you give a life (yours), plain and simple. I have read the different arguments here about cost. What I want to know, what price do we put on a person's life? Did they ask to be murdered, raped, or tortured? No, they did not. A person is dead, nothing will change that! Nothing we do will bring them back to their family, to their children. This family will forever be without this person.

This has nothing to do with revenge, it has everything to do with justice! Some people are just rotten, for whatever reason they decided that killing someone else was the answer, they were very wrong. Their actions just didn't affect only one person, it affected the lives of many people.

Is it justice to let a murderer live? No, it is not! Punishment should suit the crime. When you take someones life, the only punishment suitable is death. Housing a murderer in prison for 50 years is not suitable punishment. They get 3 meals a day and they get to see their family, the deceased does not have these priviledges.

So what if many states have abolished the death penalty, that doesn't make it right. We have all these bleeding hearts saying ooooh it just isn't right to kill someone. Well, no shit it isn't right! I'm sure if all the victims could speak they would say, no i didn't want to die, I wanted to live. That should matter!All incarceration does is send a message to criminals that they can kill whoever they want and we as a society will slap their wrist and lock them up. Our prisons are over crowded as it is. Why further complicate this situation by incarcerating them!

Of course it isn't up to me, I'm only one person. I believe in justice and punishment suitable for the crime commited. If we didn't let people live on death row for 20+ years, the cost would be minimal. If we didn't pussy foot around with criminals we wouldn't have the problems we have now with crime.

So, don't abolish the death penalty, for Gods sake enforce it! It is time that society stand up and say enough is enough. We will no longer tolerate murder, if you kill someone we will kill you in return. No appeals, no bleeding hearts, no guilt! If we adopted this attitude you wouldn't need to make a reservation to get placed on death row, we would have plenty of vacancies!

Call me, I wouldn't have a problem pushing the button!
Consider it community service!:spbx:

[Shiane]

I have saw many posts here about pro-life. Sorry guys and gals, this thread isn't about pro-life. This thread is about the death penalty.

I know some of you would like to combine the two, lets keep them seperate regardless of how you feel about it.

If you want to discuss abortion, you should use the thread listed below.

http://www.marriedandflirtingchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2337&highlight=abortion+pro-life

[stucknmarriage74(f)]

wow shiane, you r so good with words....yeah what Shiane said

[Annie]

Am I an advocate for the death penalty, you bet your ass I am!

Any person who commits murder should not spend the rest of their lives on death row getting appeal after appeal. They should not be sentenced to life in prison without parole.

I don't care who you are, if you don't respect the life of another human being then you don't deserve to live. If you take a life, you give a life (yours), plain and simple. I have read the different arguments here about cost. What I want to know, what price do we put on a person's life? Did they ask to be murdered, raped, or tortured? No, they did not. A person is dead, nothing will change that! Nothing we do will bring them back to their family, to their children. This family will forever be without this person.

This has nothing to do with revenge, it has everything to do with justice! Some people are just rotten, for whatever reason they decided that killing someone else was the answer, they were very wrong. Their actions just didn't affect only one person, it affected the lives of many people.

Is it justice to let a murderer live? No, it is not! Punishment should suit the crime. When you take someones life, the only punishment suitable is death. Housing a murderer in prison for 50 years is not suitable punishment. They get 3 meals a day and they get to see their family, the deceased does not have these priviledges.

So what if many states have abolished the death penalty, that doesn't make it right. We have all these bleeding hearts saying ooooh it just isn't right to kill someone. Well, no shit it isn't right! I'm sure if all the victims could speak they would say, no i didn't want to die, I wanted to live. That should matter!All incarceration does is send a message to criminals that they can kill whoever they want and we as a society will slap their wrist and lock them up. Our prisons are over crowded as it is. Why further complicate this situation by incarcerating them!

Of course it isn't up to me, I'm only one person. I believe in justice and punishment suitable for the crime commited. If we didn't let people live on death row for 20+ years, the cost would be minimal. If we didn't pussy foot around with criminals we wouldn't have the problems we have now with crime.

So, don't abolish the death penalty, for Gods sake enforce it! It is time that society stand up and say enough is enough. We will no longer tolerate murder, if you kill someone we will kill you in return. No appeals, no bleeding hearts, no guilt! If we adopted this attitude you wouldn't need to make a reservation to get placed on death row, we would have plenty of vacancies!

Call me, I wouldn't have a problem pushing the button!
Consider it community service!:spbx: I can understand everything you say, and at one time would have agreed with your every word. In the past couple of years I have softened my stance. Capital punishment does not deter crime! If it did, crime would be lower in states and countries that enforce it, and it is clearly not.

Our judicial system is not perfect, if it were there would be no innocent people in jail, and the fact is, there are (a very small minority) innocent people in prisons throughout the country.

What I find surprising is how many (and I am NOT being personal here) people want to think that our country is based on Christian values, have no problem with capital punishment. Thou shalt not kill... it's so very plain and simple. It's not thou shalt not kill... well unless they kill first.

For God's sake, Shiane? If God wanted them dead, I'm quite sure they would be dead.... I know we should all be trying to do "God's work"... but in my opinion this is job he'd rather handle on his own.

[Shiane]

I can understand everything you say, and at one time would have agreed with your every word. In the past couple of years I have softened my stance. Capital punishment does not deter crime! If it did, crime would be lower in states and countries that enforce it, and it is clearly not.

Our judicial system is not perfect, if it were there would be no innocent people in jail, and the fact is, there are (a very small minority) innocent people in prisons throughout the country.

What I find surprising is how many (and I am NOT being personal here) people want to think that our country is based on Christian values, have no problem with capital punishment. Thou shalt not kill... it's so very plain and simple. It's not thou shalt not kill... well unless they kill first.

For God's sake, Shiane? If God wanted them dead, I'm quite sure they would be dead.... I know we should all be trying to do "God's work"... but in my opinion this is job he'd rather handle on his own.

Sorry Annie but less than 1 year ago you did agree with me..... and I quote post #8 on page one.

Personally I think he should be put to death in the same manner in which he put his victim to death. Cruel and unusual punishment is what he offered her, cruel and unusual punishment should be his as well. What's that saying about an eye for an eye?


So what changed your mind Annie?
Yeah, you're right... those are two arguments against the death penalty.... and I can think of a few more. My problem is that I can't think of a single reason for me to be FOR the death penalty!

If you want to bring God into this, I have no problem with that.

Doesn't the bible aslo say to obey the laws of the land?

Isn't the golden Rule, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

Exodus 21:12 declares that 'any who strike a man down and kills him shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 21:24-25 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.


For God's sake? Since when did murdering someone have anything to do with God? I believe in justice. I don't believe in slapping their wrist.
You're right, God is the final and ultimate judge... look at it this way. We're just helpin God out, lettin him get right to the business at hand and not waitin for eternity on death row!

[spare_change]

I can understand everything you say, and at one time would have agreed with your every word. In the past couple of years I have softened my stance. Capital punishment does not deter crime! If it did, crime would be lower in states and countries that enforce it, and it is clearly not.

Our judicial system is not perfect, if it were there would be no innocent people in jail, and the fact is, there are (a very small minority) innocent people in prisons throughout the country.

What I find surprising is how many (and I am NOT being personal here) people want to think that our country is based on Christian values, have no problem with capital punishment. Thou shalt not kill... it's so very plain and simple. It's not thou shalt not kill... well unless they kill first.

For God's sake, Shiane? If God wanted them dead, I'm quite sure they would be dead.... I know we should all be trying to do "God's work"... but in my opinion this is job he'd rather handle on his own.


Oops -- bad argument, Annie.

Actually, the Bible is in favor of capital punishment.

The first mention of the appropriate punishment for a murder is in Genesis 4:11-15.

"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;...a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."

The first mention of capital punishment as a penalty for murder is in Genesis 9:6:

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

They tell me there are approximately 600 references in the Bible that mandate capital punishment.

Your position may be correct, your argument valid, but I wouldn't use religion as a justification for it.

[spare_change]

Hi Annie,

The issue of abortion is distantly related, and probably shouldn't have been brought up, I was being a smart ass as the quote was so open ended.

It should be pointed out that in the U.S. like Canada, and other western democracies every individual has a right to life, even murderers. There will those who say that being locked up for 50 years is not much of a life, and they are probably right, but that is where the punishment aspect comes in.

A supposition that a lot of people don't agree with. Some believe that by taking a life, a murderer has forfeited his right to life.

The death penalty does not deter murder. If it did then one would be less likely to be murdered in Florida, which has the death penalty, than Michigan which doesn't. That clearly is not the case.

You're right. It doesn't deter murder -- but I guaran-damn-tee it deters one murderer. The intent is not to send a message to others; it is to remove from society one person who has no respect for the ultimate right of others.

The death penalty in the States appears to be discriminatory. The poor, minorities, and the metally handicapped are more often given the death penalty than richer, white folk. So the application of the penalty is in itself unjust.

A popular mantra by the liberal element, but seems to be less than accurate. A study done for the Santa Clara Law Review by Glenn L. Pierce, Center for Criminal Justice Policy Research, for example, found out that the ethnicity and financial status of the perpetrator played no statistically significant role in application of the death penalty. What may have been true in our less enlightened times seems to be less supportable today. (By the way, the study was for all capital cases in California from 1990-1999).

As an aside, though, it was noted that the race of the VICTIM was much more important than the race of the perpetrator. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/CaRaceStudy.pdf

However, that really is a diversion. The issue isn't the application of the death penalty, it is whether the death penalty is applicable in any instance.

Juries make mistakes all the time. Look at the sheer number of people convicted who were later found to be innocent either by DNA or other evidence coming out. For instance, Shabak Wagline spent eleven years on death row in Florida before he was found wrongly convicted. What would could have been done if he had been executed? Would people go to his grave and say "Sorry we f*cked up."? Would it help him?

And, of course, we have the other side of the coin -- when a person is allowed to go free because of jury incompetence, and goes out and kills again. Do we go to the victim's grave, and say "Sorry, we f*cked up."? Would it help him?

Given the number of jury trials in this country in any given year, I would be curious what the real odds of the jury making a mistake might be?

Finally the cost of executing some one is usually much more expensive than keeping them locked up for life. A 2005 Los Angeles Times study found that California Spends $250 million per execution. A different study in Florida in 1988 found that then it cost about $3.2 million to execute someone, but only around $520,000 to imprison the same offender for life.

Wow -- just think. California could save $245 million just by shipping their murderers to Florida!! (Must be the cost of the quiche, plasma screens, and other benefits the prisoner gets in California.)

I am not advocating to treat the offender(s) with "kid gloves" but the death penalty is a terminal solution. Once done, there is no way to undo it, and given that everyone has a right to life executing one innocent is one too many.

[TIGUY]

Once we lock these killers up for life...that means other criminals will be released in many cases to make room for the killers. Our jails are way too overcrowded...what is your solution for that? Build new jails? Naw...never happen...they have been talking about that for years and years. Who knows who will be released...from muggers to rapists or even child molesters...and don't downplay that fact...it can happen. If you have a daughter...think about it...if you don't..think about it anyway...or maybe my Mom gets mugged and sustains injuries that will maim her for life or Alzheimers will be accelerated...and that is a fact I am very familiar with. So...we should all be satisfied with our loved ones fate at the hands of the released criminals because the death penalty is discriminatory, too harsh, and unjust for some?That sounds so incredible. I understand where you are coming from and that's just fine but...don't shut it off there...if the death penalty is the wrong solution...please pple...open up your minds and let the sunshine in as they say....my mind is very open...I agree with the death penalty being wrong but unless someone has a solution on what to do with our overcrowded prisons, I have to choose the better of two evils.

Disclaimer...
These are my thoughts

Hi Annie,

The issue of abortion is distantly related, and probably shouldn't have been brought up, I was being a smart ass as the quote was so open ended.

It should be pointed out that in the U.S. like Canada, and other western democracies every individual has a right to life, even murderers. There will those who say that being locked up for 50 years is not much of a life, and they are probably right, but that is where the punishment aspect comes in.

The death penalty does not deter murder. If it did then one would be less likely to be murdered in Florida, which has the death penalty, than Michigan which doesn't. That clearly is not the case.

The death penalty in the States appears to be discriminatory. The poor, minorities, and the metally handicapped are more often given the death penalty than richer, white folk. So the application of the penalty is in itself unjust.

Juries make mistakes all the time. Look at the sheer number of people convicted who were later found to be innocent either by DNA or other evidence coming out. For instance, Shabak Wagline spent eleven years on death row in Florida before he was found wrongly convicted. What would could have been done if he had been executed? Would people go to his grave and say "Sorry we f*cked up."? Would it help him?

Finally the cost of executing some one is usually much more expensive than keeping them locked up for life. A 2005 Los Angeles Times study found that California Spends $250 million per execution. A different study in Florida in 1988 found that then it cost about $3.2 million to execute someone, but only around $520,000 to imprison the same offender for life.

I am not advocating to treat the offender(s) with "kid gloves" but the death penalty is a terminal solution. Once done, there is no way to undo it, and given that everyone has a right to life executing one innocent is one too many.

[Annie]

Sorry Annie but less than 1 year ago you did agree with me..... and I quote post #8 on page one.
So what changed your mind Annie?
If you want to bring God into this, I have no problem with that.
Doesn't the bible aslo say to obey the laws of the land?
Isn't the golden Rule, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
Exodus 21:12 declares that 'any who strike a man down and kills him shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 21:24-25 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

For God's sake? Since when did murdering someone have anything to do with God? I believe in justice. I don't believe in slapping their wrist.
You're right, God is the final and ultimate judge... look at it this way. We're just helpin God out, lettin him get right to the business at hand and not waitin for eternity on death row! Please Shiane. Look at where I quoted you and then highlighted it! You said, let me quote you: So, don't abolish the death penalty, for Gods sake enforce it! and THAT is what I responded to. I didn't bring God into it. YOU did.

There have been quite a few things that changed my mind. It didn't happen over night, but through a whole lot of soul searching.

The suicide of a friend, the senseless death of two young men in my closeknit community, and the realization that only God should determine who should live and who should die. (So go ahead and say it... I'm a liberal flip-flopper.)

One of those young men that died in the past year and a half or so was an Eagle Scout in my son's Scout Troop. His family believes that if the killer of their son gets life, or the death penalty, the killer's family is suffering a tragic loss as well. There is never justice for what he did, never. It's a wrong that can't be corrected. Prevention, is possible by using the sentence of "Life without the possibility of parole" to mean just that. Killing the person who killed their son will not make them feel better, it won't bring them peace, or closure.... That trial starts next month after almost a year and half of continuances.

I live near Chicago and I can assure you that the corruption in our police department and court system, put countless suspects in a position where they had no alternative, but to confess to crimes that they could not have committed. The thought of an innocent person being put to death turned my stomach... but I bet it has happened.

For more on the story of Jon Burge and how the Chicago court system helped me change my mind.... check out this story:
http://www.truthinjustice.org/jon-burge.htm

[spare_change]

I have saw many posts here about pro-life. Sorry guys and gals, this thread isn't about pro-life. This thread is about the death penalty.

I know some of you would like to combine the two, lets keep them seperate regardless of how you feel about it.

If you want to discuss abortion, you should use the thread listed below.

http://www.marriedandflirtingchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2337&highlight=abortion+pro-life


Heaven forbid! A thread that wandered off-subject. Woe is me! I heard --- just heard -- that HIJACKING is a capital crime here.

[Annie]

Oops -- bad argument, Annie.

Actually, the Bible is in favor of capital punishment.

The first mention of the appropriate punishment for a murder is in Genesis 4:11-15.

"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;...a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him."

The first mention of capital punishment as a penalty for murder is in Genesis 9:6:

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man."

They tell me there are approximately 600 references in the Bible that mandate capital punishment.

Your position may be correct, your argument valid, but I wouldn't use religion as a justification for it. Spare, I was responding to Shiane when she exclaimed "for God's sake".

I am not a Christian. I don't go to a church, and I don't read the bible. I do however, think that the 10 Commandments have something to say in the way we should all live our lives. (But then I also think the Scout Manual does a wonderful job of that and should be required reading....)

So... what does that mean "Thou shalt not kill... except for when? For me and my family... Thou shalt no kill. period.

[spare_change]

Spare, I was responding to Shiane when she exclaimed "for God's sake".

I am not a Christian. I don't go to a church, and I don't read the bible. I do however, think that the 10 Commandments have something to say in the way we should all live our lives. (But then I also think the Scout Manual does a wonderful job of that and should be required reading....)

So... what does that mean "Thou shalt not kill... except for when? For me and my family... Thou shalt no kill. period.

Actually, you're cherry-picking. The bible gives numerous justifications for the death penalty, and doesn't say "that shalt not kill ...period." Whether it be war or justice, killing another person is accepted in several instances. I suppose ... period .... means you believe that those who kill in defense of this country, and your family, are wrong, too, huh?

Interesting, though, that you mention the Boy Scout manual, an organization for which one of the requirements of membership is that you affirm a belief in God. By extension, since the Bible is the Word of God, it would seem that I could safely surmise that the Boy Scout manual also affirms those portions that validate the death penalty. I'm pretty sure that the Boy Scout oath isn't "I promise to love God, (except when I don't agree with what He has to say), my family and my country (but I will castigate those who kill in defense of it) ..."

[Shiane]

Please Shiane. Look at where I quoted you and then highlighted it! You said, let me quote you: So, don't abolish the death penalty, for Gods sake enforce it! and THAT is what I responded to. I didn't bring God into it. YOU did.

There have been quite a few things that changed my mind. It didn't happen over night, but through a whole lot of soul searching.

The suicide of a friend, the senseless death of two young men in my closeknit community, and the realization that only God should determine who should live and who should die. (So go ahead and say it... I'm a liberal flip-flopper.)

One of those young men that died in the past year and a half or so was an Eagle Scout in my son's Scout Troop. His family believes that if the killer of their son gets life, or the death penalty, the killer's family is suffering a tragic loss as well. There is never justice for what he did, never. It's a wrong that can't be corrected. Prevention, is possible by using the sentence of "Life without the possibility of parole" to mean just that. Killing the person who killed their son will not make them feel better, it won't bring them peace, or closure.... That trial starts next month after almost a year and half of continuances.

I live near Chicago and I can assure you that the corruption in our police department and court system, put countless suspects in a position where they had no alternative, but to confess to crimes that they could not have committed. The thought of an innocent person being put to death turned my stomach... but I bet it has happened.

For more on the story of Jon Burge and how the Chicago court system helped me change my mind.... check out this story:
http://www.truthinjustice.org/jon-burge.htm

I support the death penalty 100%. The death penalty is for premeditated murder. Sorry, but no atricle is going to change my mind. It isn't a fool proof system, but nothing is!

Yes, it is sad that you have suffered a loss. It is sad that those parents lost a child. I can tell you straight up if that was my child I would want the son of a bitch to fry in hell! It would be an insult to me and to the memory of my child to let the murderer spend the rest of his life in prison. That is just me, I don't speak for you, I don't speak for anyone but myself and I certainly will never apologize for it.

By the way... "for God's sake" is just an euphemism....(use of an expression in place of another expression that is disagreeable or offensive) I guess I should have said for F--s sake.

For God's sake, Shiane? If God wanted them dead, I'm quite sure they would be dead.... I know we should all be trying to do "God's work"... but in my opinion this is job he'd rather handle on his own.

Annie, I can't and won't pretend to know or guess what God thinks or wants.

But, I have always like the saying God works in mysterious ways!:55

[Annie]

Actually, you're cherry-picking. The bible gives numerous justifications for the death penalty, and doesn't say "that shalt not kill ...period." Whether it be war or justice, killing another person is accepted in several instances. I suppose ... period .... means you believe that those who kill in defense of this country, and your family, are wrong, too, huh?

Interesting, though, that you mention the Boy Scout manual, an organization for which one of the requirements of membership is that you affirm a belief in God. By extension, since the Bible is the Word of God, it would seem that I could safely surmise that the Boy Scout manual also affirms those portions that validate the death penalty. I'm pretty sure that the Boy Scout oath isn't "I promise to love God, (except when I don't agree with what He has to say), my family and my country (but I will castigate those who kill in defense of it) ..." Who said I didn't believe in God? I said I was not a Christian, I never said that didn't believe in God!

Your Holy Bible is what you believe to be the word of God, it's not as sacred to me as it is to you. There's quite a bit in there that I don't agree with... like the whole book of Leviticus for one..... but that still doesn't take away from the fact that the 10 Commandments are pretty good rules for life.

[Shiane]

Heaven forbid! A thread that wandered off-subject. Woe is me! I heard --- just heard -- that HIJACKING is a capital crime here.


Tosses Spare the extra bottle of midol I found in the cabinet. By the way if it was a crime, we would all be in the slammer. It was a redirect, thats all.

[Postman]

Seems Annie sit's on both sides of the fence on this issue if you read back far enough.

[Annie]

Seems Annie sit's on both sides of the fence on this issue if you read back far enough.No, I don't and if ya stay current enough, you'll see that that was what we were discussing.

[spare_change]

Who said I didn't believe in God? I said I was not a Christian, I never said that didn't believe in God!

Your Holy Bible is what you believe to be the word of God, it's not as sacred to me as it is to you. There's quite a bit in there that I don't agree with... like the whole book of Leviticus for one..... but that still doesn't take away from the fact that the 10 Commandments are pretty good rules for life.


Nor did I -- I certainly didn't say that you didn't believe in God. I did say, however, that you seemed to have picked and chosen only those parts that support your argument, and failed to acknowledge the rest.


Enough fighting -- can we kiss and make up now?

[spare_change]

Tosses Spare the extra bottle of midol I found in the cabinet. By the way if it was a crime, we would all be in the slammer. It was a redirect, thats all.


Damn, you're right! It says it right on the bottle ---


MIDOL -- for those pains caused by selective application of the rules.


Thanks !!

[Annie]

Nor did I -- I certainly didn't say that you didn't believe in God. I did say, however, that you seemed to have picked and chosen only those parts that support your argument, and failed to acknowledge the rest.


Enough fighting -- can we kiss and make up now?
Fighting? Were we fighting, or do you just want to get the make up kiss? :kk

[spare_change]

Fighting? Were we fighting, or do you just want to get the make up kiss? :kk


Damn -- was I THAT obvious?