Traditional Male/Female roles

[Jy]

Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsiblity and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

Which in turn got a whole new topic started that obviously deserves its own thread. I will post the relevant replies here, then we can continue the discussion...

[romancer522000]

I have never felt that there was anything that was not my work . I guess i watched my dad when i was young who helped with all duties around the house . Having a mess of kids I had no problem with changing diapers , doing laundry , cooking meals or doing the shopping . But i refused and so did the kids to breastfeed !!!!!! All this has left me feel quite good about myself in that i know i can take care of myself or anyone at all .

[Jy]

Annie said:
Jazzy, you crack me up! Once, not long after our son was born my husband told a friend he was "babysitting"... let me assure you it was the last time he ever referred to his fatherly responsiblities again using that word!

Walter said:
My wife always used the term it was a "Guy's night" (We have a son)
I never made the mistake of using the term "Babysitting" but some of her girlfriends did!

I said:
And that gets me going even more!! Women who perpetuate this polarized dynamic!
Of course there are many women out there who like to encourage this myth because they like to think that the world would stop revolving without them, and that their families would perish if it wasn't for them.
We all need to remember that each family remember is an integral part of the unit. Everyone needs to contribute, everyone needs to feel worthwhile, and everyone needs to put their damn coffee cups in the dishwasher and not leave them all over the house!!
Oh, wait...that's at my house...
To which Annie and Lena agreed.

[Jy]

Spare said:

Now you JUST knew i was going to respond................

but, first, let me say this ----- MC, that is one knockout of an avatar!!!!!!!

Your treatise continues the blurring of traditional male-female roles, a feat that some would say needs to be done, while others would say is catastrophic.

The feminization of males, particularly in the US, has had a deleterious effect on the social roles. Even worse, the masculinization of women has generated a whole new set of social laws. For example, 30 years ago, it was inconceivable that a man would walk away from his responsibility to a newborn. In 2004, 37% of all births in the United States were to single mothers, and in the black community, over 50% of all births were to single mothers. In addition, 40% of the child support required by non-custodial fathers is not paid. Clearly, the role of men as providers has been compromised. No longer does he feel the responsibility to care for the children he spawns, or the bearer of those children.

In addition, 54% of all teenage girls have participated in oral sex By THE TIME THEY ARE 16. Of that 54%, 81% had engaged in oral sex BEFORE the age of 15. No longer does there seem to be a need for male-female relationship establishment.

So, what does that have to do with dirty coffee cups? Only that couples make their own rules -- most of the men here will say that they help with the housework AND bring home the majority of the income. Which leads to the next issue -- working mothers. The National Institute of Health just released a study that showed that the average working mother makes $24,352 a year. After expenses for work and child care, and considering the increased cost of living as a result of working (eating out more, or buying convenience foods), the actual increase in spending capital per household is --- are you ready for this? --- less than $2,150 per year. That means that she earned approximately $1.10 per hour in disposable income. So, with so little return on the effort, and the documented damage done to children as result of mothers working, why do they do it? Materialism? Escapism?

So, each relationship is a negotiated settlement. He will do this, and she will do that. To try to stereotype it is impossible, and frankly, to complain here accomplishes nothing. Talk to your spouse -- negotiate your own deal.are

[Jy]

Kira said:


After I read and reread what spare had to say and all the stats that were provided it made me recall a talk show I had just watched. Part of the show was a discussion of the trend that seems to be happening with women. They are no longer wanting the so called satisfaction of a job or a career. It is coming full circle again where a majority of the women are saying it is alright to want just stay at home and be the wife and let the man be the bread winner.
Maybe things would be better this way??? Any thoughts ladies??

[Jy]

Marycat said:


Ok, you asked for it....I think the world would be a better place if men and woman went back to the way things used to be....Men working to provide for the family and the woman taking care of the home, the husband and the children. It would also be nice it we could all afford to live that way.

My mom was a stay at home mom, my dad worked his ass off as a machinist. I remember him repairing lawnmowers and other peoples cars for extra money on the weekends and in the evening after he got home from work. She made most of our clothes, we always had enough to eat, an ok house, one car in the family and picnics on the weekends.

Mom went to work full time when I was 12 my sister was 10. She took care of little old ladies in their homes, like a private nurse would do. When I was 15 she got me a job cooking and doing laundry for an elderly wealthy couple in our town. I did that off and on till I was 18. Since then I have worked in our local hospital, most of my adult life. I did work in adult foster care for 10 years in a family owned business then back to the hospital where I am now.

We have never had the choice for me to be a stay at home mom. We needed the money and knew I would always have to work. Only once in our 30 years of marriage did I have the opportunity to be at home full time with my kids( and that was an accident, I couldn't find a job after moving back to town)....it lasted 2 years(It was the best 2 years), then back to work for me. I was lucky that I never had to use formal childcare, no money went out for that....my mom took care of them, when I worked in the family business they went to work with me when they were not in school. Or hubby and I worked different shifts so one of us would always be there for the kids.

I would have loved to be at home all the time everyday....its who I am, who I always wanted to be. Give me those babies and the station wagon. Sometimes it just does not work.

Hubby and I never talked about who was responsible for doing what in our home, we just always did it together, if it needed done one of us did it. I suppose If I figure it out, it will come out that I have done more of the cooking, the butt wiping, the room mothering, etc....only because he was working at one of the two jobs he has always held. His jobs were more physically demanding that mine...a man gets tired doing all that physical labor. My mind has been tired more often than my body....I think women were made to handle 16 different tasks at one time so we could care for the family while man brought home the bacon, venison,money-whatever.

I know there are single dads out there who do it all. I'm glad they have been able to step up....A dad is not the same as a mom though...something is missing....the mom stuff, the kissing, the nurturing, the gentleness that kids need.

I am one of the females who does not think its a good idea for women to be in combat - working in construction - working on the road crews - building bridges- street cops - prison guards in a male prison. Women are not physically made to do those jobs. I am not saying that all females need to be behind a desk or in the kitchen either. I have run my share of wire, insulated my house, changed tires & oil etc. I did it because it needed to be done for my family.

I love being a woman who is a good wife, a good mother and I'm very good at my job and yes in that order.

I don't go out drinking with the girls...Things happen, I might be tempted, and I'm not willing to risk our marriage just to have some party time. You won't find me smoking a cigar and farting down at the pub with the boys, I am not a man, I don't wish I was a man.

I am fortunate that my husband feels the same way I do when it comes to hanging out at the local bar. If we go out drinking we do it together.

Boy did I ramble.....it might not all make sense and it might not be in the right order.

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it !
__________________
The days are too short even for love;
how can there be enough time for quarreling?

[Jy]

Sunfiresix said:


Great story Marycat, my wife has always felt the same and I applaud her and women like her, kids would be so much better off. She did go out and work when we first married but once we blended our two families six kids between us, I managed two jobs and we enjoyed life. I miss all the old time family get togethes though.
Your story not too long but very well put. Hats off to you.

[sweetgapeach]

This is a tough one ! I have been a stay at home Mom , and was for 13 years . And now that I do work I feel I have two jobs !! I still have the same responsiblity as before but with added pressure.
Yes, my Hubby does work hard , but when he is at home , he looks at it as his time to rest. I look at it like this . When is it my time , where are my weekends ,when do I get to sleep in ?
He may do the dishes sometimes ,then acts like he did the most wonderful thing for me . Its crap !!
In this house , I cook ,clean,mow grass (he hasnt mowed grass prolly 6 times since the time we were married ) and take care of the kids. He has even said "Well , I watched the kids for you . I said Watched your kids for me?
I get frustrated and mad at times !! But I think since I have done it all I set myself up , to where its expected !!
I dont care if I am sick I will get woke up and asked whats for dinner , and i get up and do it !!
My Hubby tells me I have it easy, he works harder and makes more !! I think its a bunch of shit !!
If all I had to do was stay at home then I wouldnt and didnt mind doing it all ! Now when I am working it does !!

[Sunfiresix]

Was it my fault--I think I used the term helping because my wife is ill and I do most everything so I "help" her do things she likes to do, I have always just done stuff around the house, part of my responsibilty, we agreed neither would have specific duties when we became a blended family. Sorry about the term. Helped. No offense meant.

[Jy]

No offense taken honey. It just sparked a lively discussion, which is great! I enjoy hearing about other's solutions to chores, income, etc. and one post simply led to another, which started a new topic. We're notorious for going down bunny trails here! I don't think anyone was offended by your reference. I for oen know you're a saint.:kk

[surfnchat]

It's funny to think about it, but I think there are some "guy" roles that seem to pop up around the house... For example, I seem to be the one called on to kill the nasty-looking spiders around the house. I alse end up being put in charge of hooking up the new DVD player. I'm not saying that this is 100% of the time, but I've noticed... Anyone else have some examples?

[IntimateStranger]

In this house , I cook ,clean,mow grass (he hasnt mowed grass prolly 6 times since the time we were married ) and take care of the kids. He has even said "Well , I watched the kids for you . I said Watched your kids for me?
I get frustrated and mad at times !! But I think since I have done it all I set myself up , to where its expected !!
I dont care if I am sick I will get woke up and asked whats for dinner , and i get up and do it !!
My Hubby tells me I have it easy, he works harder and makes more !! I think its a bunch of shit !!
If all I had to do was stay at home then I wouldnt and didnt mind doing it all ! Now when I am working it does !!

If she mowed the grass once I would be riddled with guilt for weeks. The kids, well there as much mine, and I bet I have spent my share of time.

You get woke up when your sick and asked whats for dinner ?????

The Sweet in Sweetgapeach does not do you justice!!! :kk

[Sunfiresix]

Thanks for the compliment Hope I live up to it. I have always enjoyed doing things around the house, the rewards were always fantastic.

[Jy]

I kill the bugs, I assemble toys, hook up electronics (and quite well I might add!) I like puttering around with things, but the lawn cutting is his. He did landscaping when he was in university and has a real knack for it.




It's funny to think about it, but I think there are some "guy" roles that seem to pop up around the house... For example, I seem to be the one called on to kill the nasty-looking spiders around the house. I alse end up being put in charge of hooking up the new DVD player. I'm not saying that this is 100% of the time, but I've noticed... Anyone else have some examples?

[surfnchat]

I kill the bugs, I assemble toys, hook up electronics (and quite well I might add!) I like puttering around with things, but the lawn cutting is his. He did landscaping when he was in university and has a real knack for it.


What guy doesn't like trimming the bushes every now and then? ;)

[Sandy]

well sweet i can relate to you honey. i've done both also. and i work 2 jobs on top of it. and when i bitched at mark about it , i got well i put the roof over your head. i'll bet you i won't ever hear that again. but i'm still expected to do everything around here. i pitched a royal bitch fit, and told him to straighten up or get out. i'm not saying that that will work for you. but boy it has around here. i think it should be 50/50 you help make the mess. you help clean it up. and as far as the kids go, you layed down to have your fun, so when you get up. be a parent.

[Sunfiresix]

When We managed a complex my wife would beat me to the tractor to mow the 4.5 acres, she loved that stuff. Always been a team. The only wat it should be.

[Jy]

Marycat said:
I was lucky that I never had to use formal childcare, no money went out for that....my mom took care of them, when I worked in the family business they went to work with me when they were not in school. Or hubby and I worked different shifts so one of us would always be there for the kids. You're lucky MC! What a good arrangement! Otherwise you get into the duel income trap that Spare made reference to.

I would have loved to be at home all the time everyday....its who I am, who I always wanted to be. Give me those babies and the station wagon. We must have an extra "mom" gene or something! I love being a mom!
I think women were made to handle 16 different tasks at one time so we could care for the family while man brought home the bacon, venison,money-whatever. It's part of our genetic makeup; women and men are wired differently. I agree with you there...
I am one of the females who does not think its a good idea for women to be in combat - working in construction - working on the road crews - building bridges- street cops - prison guards in a male prison. Women are not physically made to do those jobs. I am not saying that all females need to be behind a desk or in the kitchen either. I have run my share of wire, insulated my house, changed tires & oil etc. I did it because it needed to be done for my family. I'm the one who putters around doing all those home repairs, because I like doing it, and God knows I'm into mutual respect of the sexes, but if I'm trapped in a burning building, I want 6ft., 220lb. man coming to rescue my ass, not the 150lb. 5'8" woman (wait! that would be me!) Women and men are different! That doesn't make one sex better than the other, mind you. There are certain jobs out there that women just aren't suited for physically. Why do some women have such a problem with that? The truth of the matter is, men are stronger. A man my same height and weight will be stronger than me. You can't get around that.

I love being a woman who is a good wife, a good mother and I'm very good at my job and yes in that order. I love being a woman too, and a wife and a mom, and a fitness instructor, and I love to fix the plumbing, build a sandbox, bake cookies, and put on the boxing gloves.

[sweetgapeach]

well sweet i can relate to you honey. i've done both also. and i work 2 jobs on top of it. and when i bitched at mark about it , i got well i put the roof over your head. i'll bet you i won't ever hear that again. but i'm still expected to do everything around here. i pitched a royal bitch fit, and told him to straighten up or get out. i'm not saying that that will work for you. but boy it has around here. i think it should be 50/50 you help make the mess. you help clean it up. and as far as the kids go, you layed down to have your fun, so when you get up. be a parent.



Amen !!!!

[sweetgapeach]

If she mowed the grass once I would be riddled with guilt for weeks. The kids, well there as much mine, and I bet I have spent my share of time.

You get woke up when your sick and asked whats for dinner ?????

The Sweet in Sweetgapeach does not do you justice!!! :kk


Thank You !!

[Zpanther]

Marycat said:
I was lucky that I never had to use formal childcare, no money went out for that....my mom took care of them, when I worked in the family business they went to work with me when they were not in school. Or hubby and I worked different shifts so one of us would always be there for the kids. You're lucky MC! What a good arrangement! Otherwise you get into the duel income trap that Spare made reference to.

I would have loved to be at home all the time everyday....its who I am, who I always wanted to be. Give me those babies and the station wagon. We must have an extra "mom" gene or something! I love being a mom!
I think women were made to handle 16 different tasks at one time so we could care for the family while man brought home the bacon, venison,money-whatever. It's part of our genetic makeup; women and men are wired differently. I agree with you there...
I am one of the females who does not think its a good idea for women to be in combat - working in construction - working on the road crews - building bridges- street cops - prison guards in a male prison. Women are not physically made to do those jobs. I am not saying that all females need to be behind a desk or in the kitchen either. I have run my share of wire, insulated my house, changed tires & oil etc. I did it because it needed to be done for my family. I'm the one who putters around doing all those home repairs, because I like doing it, and God knows I'm into mutual respect of the sexes, but if I'm trapped in a burning building, I want 6ft., 220lb. man coming to rescue my ass, not the 150lb. 5'8" woman (wait! that would be me!) Women and men are different! That doesn't make one sex better than the other, mind you. There are certain jobs out there that women just aren't suited for physically. Why do some women have such a problem with that? The truth of the matter is, men are stronger. A man my same height and weight will be stronger than me. You can't get around that.

I love being a woman who is a good wife, a good mother and I'm very good at my job and yes in that order. I love being a woman too, and a wife and a mom, and a fitness instructor, and I love to fix the plumbing, build a sandbox, bake cookies, and put on the boxing gloves.

Alright Jazzy..... get your cute ass back in that cave and stoke up the fire. I'm goin' out to get us some meat for dinner and when I get back.. maybe you can 'fix my plumbing.'

[bonzzz4292]

i might not always help 100% around the house, and i might not always agree with what is going on in the house. but i can say for the most part we agree on how things should not be done.

[Jy]

Holy Jumping! A man who knows how to give what he gets!!
Bring me back a big wooley mammoth to throw on the fire! I'll fix your randy ass while it's cooking!


Alright Jazzy..... get your cute ass back in that cave and stoke up the fire. I'm goin' out to get us some meat for dinner and when I get back.. maybe you can 'fix my plumbing.'

[Zpanther]

... alright. Nice and warm in here now. You look pretty hot. Take off that robe and hang some of this meat over the fire. mmmmmmmmmmmm...... now you look even hotter. :satan:

[Jy]

I'm not trying to centre you out bonzzz, but there's the word "help" again, which implies that the household chores are Sandy's responsibility and that you are doing her a favour by assisting her with them!
You're not to blame for this; it's a mindset, an established pattern in our society.


i might not always help 100% around the house, and i might not always agree with what is going on in the house. but i can say for the most part we agree on how things should not be done.

[Jy]

Okay, time to throw in my two cents.

My husband and I have one basic rule for the house, which we are passing on to our son: clean up after yourself. If everyone takes responsibility for their own mess, there's no scapegoat, no martyr, no imbalance. As far as the general chores, I tend to do most of them, although he will do something if he sees it needs doing, such a turning on the dishwasher, throwing a load of laundry in, etc.
I do most of the work because he works more hours than me. We agreed on this years ago when we decided to start a family. I work very part time hours because I enjoy my job, but am careful to not make too much money, as that would put us in a higher tax bracket and we'd actually be losing money.
It was a big adjustment for me at first, to be making so little money, as I've always prided myself on being financially independant, but it was an adjustment I was willing to make to be home to raise my son.

[Wet Beaver]

i give up...it will take me a week to read this thread.....but i will get back to ya....:kk

[bluevirgo69]

I got married in June of 2005 to a wonderful man. I actually found someone who loves me for who I am and sees all the beauty inside and outside. Before, I started going with my husband, I wasnt looking to be married to him. I was actually thinking of using him. I had been in a nasty relationship just prior to getting involved with my husband. I never thought I would fall in love with him. We have known each other for a couple of years, before we got involved with each other. There he was in the background waiting for an opportunity with me and I had different plans for him. Horrible huh? I didn't actually fall in love with him until I saw him cry. He had come to me for help and he was so sincere. I knew that I always liked him, but didn't know it would hit me as love. When we got together, all he asked of me was to stand by his side. Maybe he didn't plan on falling in love with me either. Standing by each other's side that is what we were suppose to do. I was with my then boyfriend for about a year and we decided to go farther with our relationship this past year. My role as a wife has been great!! I know that I am new at this marriage, but right now, I am not willing to trade it in. I have found my husband to be very compatable for me in all aspects. I love the way he looks at me regardless of what I happen to look like on a certain day. I feel sometimes, that I am not giving in that way like he is towards me. I do know that I do love him. When my husband comes home, I plan on showing him this site. I think we can benefit from it. I think it will be nice to meet new and interesting people that we have so much in common with.:)

[spare_change]

well sweet i can relate to you honey. i've done both also. and i work 2 jobs on top of it. and when i bitched at mark about it , i got well i put the roof over your head. i'll bet you i won't ever hear that again. but i'm still expected to do everything around here. i pitched a royal bitch fit, and told him to straighten up or get out. i'm not saying that that will work for you. but boy it has around here. i think it should be 50/50 you help make the mess. you help clean it up. and as far as the kids go, you layed down to have your fun, so when you get up. be a parent.


Why do you work two jobs? How many kids have you got at home?

[Norfolkdave]

While my wife works in the mornings I help with the chores, I come off here and vacumn, polish and dust, and decorate where needed, together we choose the colours, furniture etc. In the home if its nice I clean the outside windows, shes I admitt does my laundry, but I try to help where possible. I always say " Is there anything you want me to do"

[Jy]

Sounds like you're a big contributer to getting things done, Dave, which only reinforces my original point (and I really did have one!) that we often use the term "help" which implies that it's the wife's sole responsibility to do the chores, and when the husband pitches in, he's doing her a favour. It only requires a subtle change of mindset to realize that you are a "contributer" not a "helper"! Sounds like you and Chris have it arranged to both your liking.

That being said, will you come and wash my windows? We both detest that job!

[Norfolkdave]

Sounds like you're a big contributer to getting things done, Dave, which only reinforces my original point (and I really did have one!) that we often use the term "help" which implies that it's the wife's sole responsibility to do the chores, and when the husband pitches in, he's doing her a favour. It only requires a subtle change of mindset to realize that you are a "contributer" not a "helper"! Sounds like you and Chris have it arranged to both your liking.

That being said, will you come and wash my windows? We both detest that job!

Hello Jazzy, we get by ok, its a change to be able to help, it gives me excercise and I enjoy doing it, Passports packed on our way:wa:

[spare_change]

Sounds like you're a big contributer to getting things done, Dave, which only reinforces my original point (and I really did have one!) that we often use the term "help" which implies that it's the wife's sole responsibility to do the chores, and when the husband pitches in, he's doing her a favour. It only requires a subtle change of mindset to realize that you are a "contributer" not a "helper"! Sounds like you and Chris have it arranged to both your liking.

That being said, will you come and wash my windows? We both detest that job!

Wow! You really stumble over this word "help", don't you? Whether we call it help, or assist, or contribute, or share ---- the cause and the result are the same. You have negotiated an agreement for chores in the past, but now you want to change it? Sounds like you need to go back to the table.

[MCat]

Was it my fault--No offense meant.

No problem Sunfire.....we are always looking for an excuse to start a lively discussion:kk

[Barkiss]

When exactly did "help" become a four-letter word? ;)

[MCat]

When exactly did "help" become a four-letter word? ;)

In the early 70's....when some women decided they didn't need help or assistance, they could do it all themselves, they wanted to be equals with men, they wanted to do it all. "I can open my own door, I'll pay for my own movie and dinner, I can pump my own gas....move over let me lay that asphalt". I think a lot of women have bitten off more than they can chew and the men are thinking they don't need to be responsible heads of the family, you wanted to do it all...go for it sister.

We will never be equals, we are too different in our mental and physical makeup.


help

To give assistance to; aid: I helped her find the book. He helped me into my coat.

To contribute to the furtherance of; promote.
To give relief to: help the needy.
To ease; relieve: medication to help your cold.
To change for the better; improve: A fresh coat of paint will help a scarred old table.
To refrain from; avoid or resist. Used with can or cannot: couldn't help laughing.
To wait on, as in a store or restaurant.
v. intr.
To be of service; give assistance.n.

The act or an instance of helping.
Aid or assistance.
Relief; remedy.
One that helps: You've been a great help. A food processor is a help to the serious cook.




[Middle English helpen, from Old English helpan.]Synonyms: help, aid, assist, succor


These verbs mean to contribute to the fulfillment of a need, the furtherance of an effort, or the achievement of a purpose or end. Help and aid, the most general, are frequently interchangeable: a medication that helps (or aids) the digestion. Help, however, sometimes conveys a stronger suggestion of effectual action: I'll help you move the piano.

Assist usually implies making a secondary contribution or acting as a subordinate: Apprentices assisted the chef in preparing the banquet.
Succor refers to going to the relief of one in want, difficulty, or distress: “Mr. Harding thought... of the worn-out, aged men he had succored” (Anthony Trollope). See also synonyms at improve (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=improve)





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assistance



n 1: the activity of contributing to the fulfillment of a need or furtherance of an effort or purpose; "he gave me an assist with the housework"; "could not walk without assistance"; "rescue party went to their aid"; "offered his help in unloading" [syn: aid (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aid), assist (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=assist), help (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=help)] 2: a resource; "visual aids in teaching"; "economic assistance to depressed areas" [syn: aid (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aid), help (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=help)]


It's blown way out of proportion just like everything else.

So now instead of the F word , we can just say the H word. :D

[IntimateStranger]

When exactly did "help" become a four-letter word? ;)

Help implies that the task at hand is not your responsibility.

"Help" becomes vulgar= (rude, offensive, improper,naughty) and therefore a 4 letter word when it crosses that line when one considers what they are doing to be of assistance to another where in reality its their resposibility.

[Barkiss]

In the early 70's....when some women decided they didn't need help or assistance, they could do it all themselves, they wanted to be equals with men, they wanted to do it all. "I can open my own door, I'll pay for my own movie and dinner, I can pump my own gas....move over let me lay that asphalt". I think a lot of women have bitten off more than they can chew and the men are thinking they don't need to be responsible heads of the family, you wanted to do it all...go for it sister.

We will never be equals, we are too different in our mental and physical makeup.

It's blown way out of proportion just like everything else.

So now instead of the F word , we can just say the H word. :D

awww..the help with you. :)

Thanks...you made my point without me being politically incorrect..:)

[Barkiss]

Help implies that the task at hand is not your responsibility.

"Help" becomes vulgar= (rude, offensive, improper,naughty) and therefore a 4 letter word when it crosses that line when one considers what they are doing to be of assistance to another where in reality its their resposibility.

My poor staff...I'm cussing them out all the time, and didn't realize it...;)

[Gman992]

Hey, I was just reading on article that more and more men are getting plastic surgery done? What the f*&K? Sinatra would never do that!!! And I don't even want to talk about all of the men that wear make-up---you know--metrosexuals...

[Jy]

Spare, I am quite satisfied with our household chores arrangement, so I'm not sure how you got the impression that I want to change them. This thread was simply initiated by an exchange of ideas that seemed diverse enough to warrent a separate thread.
So far, Intimate Stranger seems to be the only one who fully comprehends the point I was trying to make. Help isn't a bad word, only when it's original meaning (and thank you to MC for posting that) is blown out of proportion. The original meaning is quite harmless, but when "helping" one's spouse becomes some kind of "magnanimous" gesture of assisting said spouse with his/her responsibilities, it does become vulgar.
As I said before, the distribution of chores should be mutually agreed upon and should take into consideration both partners workload, personal preferences - I love cooking, so I do it- and getting the children contributing. This sounds idealistic, but I don't think it is. It's called fair.

[Barkiss]

Damn Jazzy...I don't like it when you use big words like magnanimous...makes me dizzy. ;)

Anyways, I guess I am too traditional for this thread. My wife and I have split responsibilities. I work 60-70 hours a week to financially support the family and she works 60-70 hours a week managing the house. When the two crossover, I would consider that "helping" regardless of the other's responsibility.

She has, and I am sure will continue, to come to my office and help organize things. We are a bunch of guys without much organizational skills. When she does it, I consider it a huge "help".

In the same breath, I have been known to cook dinner, vacuum, wash windows, wash clothes, etc., and she has always told me, "Thanks for the 'help'".

I will never ask my wife to "help" me negotiate a contract nor will she ever ask me to "help" her (well, there isn't anything she wouldn't ask me to "help" her with).

Bottom line is I don't want to be criticized because I might use the word "help" on a thread when referring to an action I performed around the house. I personally, and proudly, do help my wife around the house.

[sweetgapeach]

I dont care if the word used should be Help or Assist , I will take what I can get !! Either one !!

[Jy]

Spoken by a man who obviously knows the true meaning of the word "help" and also knows the value of expressing appreciation for something your wife does anyway! It's so important for us to express our gratitude to each other and not take our partners for granted. Seems like there's some of that flying around here, which is why this thread started in the first place.

I'm not criticizing you for using the word help. Just adding my two cents to the discussion.
Sounds like you and your wife have found an arrangement with works for both of you and that you both regonnize the value of each of your roles. Kudos to you both!

[sweetgapeach]

A Thank you , goes along way !!

[Barkiss]

A Thank you , goes along way !!

and a towel...can't forget the towel...:blowjob:

[sweetgapeach]

and a towel...can't forget the towel...:blowjob:



:lmao How could I have forgotten that , Baby !!

[Sandy]

well guys all i can say is this. i agree with jazzy if everybody would pick up after themselves it would make things easier, we're all trying that now. and spare as far as 2 jobs go, both are part-time. 1 i clean houses 3 days a week for a lady. 2. i watch my 3 year-old nephew so my sister can work her job. i've had him since he was a baby. he won't stay with anybody else.

[Waltert]

All I know is I did not leave anything laying around Jazzy's house!

Actually I pick up after my wife more than she picks up after me

[Jy]

It's not very often that couples have the same outlook on housework, and one person always seems to be tidier than the other. But somehow we need to find a way that works for both, otherwise it turns into a power struggle, or one martyrs themselves, which turns into resentment, or it goes to divorce court!

[sweetgapeach]

It's not very often that couples have the same outlook on housework, and one person always seems to be tidier than the other. But somehow we need to find a way that works for both, otherwise it turns into a power struggle, or one martyrs themselves, which turns into resentment, or it goes to divorce court!


Exactly !!

[italian_princess0420]

maybe i got this topic all this wrong...but some men, not all, seem to take women for granted...like "hey now there is a woman for me to do this and this and this so i dont have to do it!!"...yeah my boyfrined is great...but i have to tell him to help me w/things around the house...especially laundry...and i try to make cooking somethin we both do...but for awhile there it was just me cooking...and i got fustrated at the fact that men see women as maids...they just sit around "watching" us bust our butts cleaning..cooking and etc while they watch a game on tv..or play video games...come on guys...women shouldnt have to do everythin...and we shouldnt have to tell u what u have to do as far as cleaning goes...that brings me to an ex...the other day ryan and i came back from ohio..and our bathroom was soooooo dirty thanks to my mom and bro, well i didnt think nothin of it since we were goin to move out in a few days or so anyways...well for those of u that know me... i cant live in a messy state...i have to clean things that i see as a mess...well anyways i let the bathroom go dirty for a couple days "which by the way killed me"...well we find out we cant move out after all and so i decide to clean the bathroom, and ryan helped...well after that ryan was about to go play his game and im like "uh noo we have more cleaning to do"..i mean we have been home for 4 days now and yet to un-pack any of our clothes and clean the room which was a huge mess from packing and comming back from a trip...well i had to "tell" him what we had to clean next...gezzzz what i do around here, but if ya get him in the right mood...he kinda cleans like me...and im a clean freek...or try to be...ryan kinda gets in my way of keeping that role

[Waltert]

I do not like to sit around and watch women bust there butts

I like to watch them wiggle their butts as they work!

(No, actually in our case it works out fairly bad, both my wife and I tend to be messy, but together we keep things semi neet. But they would never hold up to a clean freeks standards.)

[Norfolkdave]

HELP provide with the means towards what is needed or sought. So we all help Jazzy to stand on her soapbox and spread the word:D without swearing of course:nu

[Zpanther]

Spare, I am quite satisfied with our household chores arrangement, so I'm not sure how you got the impression that I want to change them. This thread was simply initiated by an exchange of ideas that seemed diverse enough to warrent a separate thread.
So far, Intimate Stranger seems to be the only one who fully comprehends the point I was trying to make. Help isn't a bad word, only when it's original meaning (and thank you to MC for posting that) is blown out of proportion. The original meaning is quite harmless, but when "helping" one's spouse becomes some kind of "magnanimous" gesture of assisting said spouse with his/her responsibilities, it does become vulgar.
As I said before, the distribution of chores should be mutually agreed upon and should take into consideration both partners workload, personal preferences - I love cooking, so I do it- and getting the children contributing. This sounds idealistic, but I don't think it is. It's called fair.

Don't worrry SunFire..... It wasn't you that opened this 'can of worms.' Easy Jazzy... I get your point. This one fits in with that thread we had called 'hotbuttons.' We found one of Jazzy's....... heh heh. Sounds like you need to renegitiate.... well, what Spare said.

[sweetgaltn]

This is a tough one ! I have been a stay at home Mom , and was for 13 years . And now that I do work I feel I have two jobs !! I still have the same responsiblity as before but with added pressure.
Yes, my Hubby does work hard , but when he is at home , he looks at it as his time to rest. I look at it like this . When is it my time , where are my weekends ,when do I get to sleep in ?
He may do the dishes sometimes ,then acts like he did the most wonderful thing for me . Its crap !!
In this house , I cook ,clean,mow grass (he hasnt mowed grass prolly 6 times since the time we were married ) and take care of the kids. He has even said "Well , I watched the kids for you . I said Watched your kids for me?
I get frustrated and mad at times !! But I think since I have done it all I set myself up , to where its expected !!
I dont care if I am sick I will get woke up and asked whats for dinner , and i get up and do it !!
My Hubby tells me I have it easy, he works harder and makes more !! I think its a bunch of shit !!
If all I had to do was stay at home then I wouldnt and didnt mind doing it all ! Now when I am working it does !!

that sounds like my life except mine will mow the yard. I've been a stay at home mom for a little over 4 years and it would still be nice if he would do the dishes for me every once in awhile or help with laundry or take the trash out without me asking.

[KIRA187]

I think this could turn out to be a VERY HOT Topic if allowed to get going and just not in here!

Spouses..... beware!

[Penny]

I dont think my husband even knows how to turn the dishwasher on. But I see the way he comes home from work and can barly move some nights so taking care of the house dosnt seem like such a big deal to me. He has wrenches in his truck that are bigger than me :(

[Penny]

Great story :)

[Sandy]

great story. you just hang on to your love for each other and be there no matter what and you'll make it.

[KIRA187]

I got married in June of 2005 to a wonderful man.

I do know that I do love him. When my husband comes home, I plan on showing him this site. I think we can benefit from it. I think it will be nice to meet new and interesting people that we have so much in common with.

Very nice Blue. I hope that you and hubby both like it here.

[spare_change]

but some men, not all, seem to take women for granted...my boyfrined is great...but i have to tell him to help me w/things around the house...especially laundry...and i try to make cooking somethin we both do...we shouldnt have to tell u what u have to do as far as cleaning goes...i cant live in a messy state...i have to clean things that i see as a mess...i decide to clean the bathroom, and ryan helped...about to go play his game and im like "uh noo we have more cleaning to do"..well i had to "tell" him what we had to clean next...

Pardon me for saying so, princess, you sound like you would be tough to live with ---unless, of course, he bows and scrapes and does exactly what you TELL him, over and over, to do. Look at what your words said. Are these "lessons" accompanied by loving pats, or screaming sessions? Pretty clear who controls this house --- how does he look in an apron?

[spare_change]

This is a tough one ! I have been a stay at home Mom , and was for 13 years . And now that I do work I feel I have two jobs !! I still have the same responsiblity as before but with added pressure.
Yes, my Hubby does work hard , but when he is at home , he looks at it as his time to rest. I look at it like this . When is it my time , where are my weekends ,when do I get to sleep in ?
He may do the dishes sometimes ,then acts like he did the most wonderful thing for me . Its crap !!
In this house , I cook ,clean,mow grass (he hasnt mowed grass prolly 6 times since the time we were married ) and take care of the kids. He has even said "Well , I watched the kids for you . I said Watched your kids for me?
I get frustrated and mad at times !! But I think since I have done it all I set myself up , to where its expected !!
I dont care if I am sick I will get woke up and asked whats for dinner , and i get up and do it !!
My Hubby tells me I have it easy, he works harder and makes more !! I think its a bunch of shit !!
If all I had to do was stay at home then I wouldnt and didnt mind doing it all ! Now when I am working it does !!

Just curious, Peach -- why did you go to work after 13 years? Your idea or your husband's? Did he ask you to go back to work?

[SirFox]

maybe i got this topic all this wrong...but some men, not all, seem to take women for granted......and im a clean freek...or try to be...ryan kinda gets in my way of keeping that role

Princess. I think you had better look at the words that are "control words." Your WORLD and that of your boyfriend's are not the same. He may be the boy from down the street, but you are two DIFFERENT people probably with TWO different goals in mind. Your Boyfriend does not have the same goals and objectives as yours.
You have a tool at your disposal...and that is communication. Use it. Communication means using WORDS to communicate with your man. And your man has to communicate with you.

Women shouldn't have to do everything, I agree. But many women often want to do EVERYTHING today. Do you realise that BTW?

You had the sexual revolution of the 1970s. Women fought hard and strong for liberation from the slavery of men....they got the "same rights" as men...
now they have to assume.

[Jy]

But that was my point ZP! I'm quite happy with the arrangements my husband and I have made! I just started this thread because it was a big can of worms somewhere else, and seemed like it needed to be a thread in itself.
And so far, I'd say it's quite a lively one too!


Don't worrry SunFire..... It wasn't you that opened this 'can of worms.' Easy Jazzy... I get your point. This one fits in with that thread we had called 'hotbuttons.' We found one of Jazzy's....... heh heh. Sounds like you need to renegitiate.... well, what Spare said.

[Jy]

Well, I couldn't leave well enough alone and had to throw in my two cents again!

I know a lot of women who like to be the ones in control; the ones who run the household; the ones who make it all happen. There are many who like the idea that if they stopped doing what they do, the whole world would stop turning; they create a dynamic whereby all family members depends on them to function. The problem starts when they get tired or overwhelmed by all that they took upon themselves and want to change what''s already been established.
"What do you mean I have to do my own laundry?"
"But, Mom, you always take care of that!"
We can be our own worst enemies!
I'm not saying that any of the ladies here have displayed that attitude, but it is very common; I see it everyday. Women pride themselves on being able to say,"I just don't know what my family would do without me." Makes them feel needed; important; indispensable.
But you're not doing yourself or others any favours that way. The children never learn to be self-sufficient, and you end up feeling taken advantage of.

[Jy]

Okay, one more thing, then I promise to take this damn soapbox to another thread!

Some people are tidy, some aren't; that's the reality of it. But the problems start when one person tries to impose their standard of living on another.
I'll use you as an example if I may, Princess. You want the apartment clean, and feel it's important to unpack and tidy up before moving onto some kind of leisure activity. Ryan isn't concerned about the mess, or his luggage, and wants to play video games. What we have here is a difference of opinion and two people with different priorities. And when one person tries to impose their priorities on another, there is no winner. Relationships aren't about control or getting one's own way. They're about communication, compromise and mutual respect.

[italian_princess0420]

errr i get what u all are saying...but u know as well as i do..its fustarating somtimes

[Cotties]

I'm a bit afraid of this thread but here goes.

My standard of clean is not much higher than my dogs. If I could use paper plates I would, if I could hose the floor down I would and if I could afford a cleaner I would.

Now my wife works 6 or 7 days a week , 12 hours a day and her standard of clean has sunk lower than mine. Is she less of a women.NO..am I angry the house is dirty.NO......do I do more than her now.YES.... is this subject a problem.. Never

We have better things to fight over than current condition of the sink......

Many people over clean their house so when their spouse returns home they have something to complain about. If this is a stress relief, keeping yourself busy. FINE

But try not to use it against your partner. You chose to marry them.

[SirFox]

Okay, one more thing, then I promise to take this damn soapbox to another thread!

Some people are tidy, some aren't; that's the reality of it. But the problems start when one person tries to impose their standard of living on another.
I'll use you as an example if I may, Princess. You want the apartment clean, and feel it's important to unpack and tidy up before moving onto some kind of leisure activity. Ryan isn't concerned about the mess, or his luggage, and wants to play video games. What we have here is a difference of opinion and two people with different priorities. And when one person tries to impose their priorities on another, there is no winner. Relationships aren't about control or getting one's own way. They're about communication, compromise and mutual respect.

Excellent answers Jazz. I am most impressed and I think you deserve some flowers....for the amount of energies that you have taken to answer a sister poster here

Do you wish red roses or would that be "politically incorrect" ( I hate that notion as it stifles life)...

[SirFox]

My experience in life and with the Forum makes me wonder when Human Beings will finally realise that one of the roots of a good relationship between two people (and particularly between a man and a woman) depends upon expressing one's thoughts through ONE'S MOUTH.

Communication is much more complex that just talking however, as it involves such things as yesssss.....BODY language....and no... not the ones that most of you are thinking about (even though that should not be discounted)..and that awful word, PERCEPTION.

We start with the house chores. There are men and women who have radically opposite views of the way that a house should be kept up. There are men who have not a single idea of how to TURN ON a dishwasher (Penny) because Penny's hubbie has PROBABLY never been shown (And it's not your fualt Penny...you simply did not think of doing it!) There are men who go directly from their mother's homes to their girlfriend's and or wives and consider that their partners are there to cater to their very needs.

(What a nice place a harem is by the way...you get to be fondled and taken care of by the gentler sex all the time...)

Men are something extremely IMmature....Guess what though? Why are men like this when we are in the 21st century? Whose fault? Ladies...step right up......You who are mothers are probably raising boys.. If you do everything for them....they will expect that with their future mates as well... It is to be hoped that you will teach your young men to do to their laundry and to responsibilize themselves in this society. Whose fault? Divorce and absent fathers in families.

BTW, Ladies... you could also teach your young men to be a little less macho by the way (the future ladies of this world will be grateful to you) ... Dads need to be involved in their son's education more than ever.

Just as many men are relatively insecure in today's society and immature because they have lost their bearings in a world where women have grown up (and most men haven't)...women have evolved. Women's role have become almost predominant. Saw statistics last night in the Herald Tribune that 57% of college grads in the USA this year will be women...

It seems to me, and it is a personal opinion, that all relationships can be enhanced by CLEAR and meaningful dialogues between two people. Princess Again: you talk of being frustrated....with your boyfriend. May I suggest that you have a nice talk with your boyfriend to see what he wants in the way of house chores and other things..if you are not satisfied with his answers and he doesn't give a hoot, then hoot him....Quite sure that there are loads of men out there who are just as good...for YOU..

The basis of creating a mutually SATISFYING relationship isn't only based on good sex...or a good maid in the kitchen or a plumber at home!

(SEX is important and is a great therapy tool)

We live in a society where in many cases the woman can ELECT to have children and stay at home, or, work and have children. Women at home should understand that if they are at home and taking care of the children. A man works 40 to 60 hours a week and he comes home to screaming children? There must be some compromises made based upon discussion and listening. When women elect to work for various reasons, then there are different variables that come into the equation including the questions of monies between the couples, who does what at home, who handles the children and when, who can go out with the boys or the girls.

(Most men will always have to work while women can elect..Not fair)

Unfortunately we still have a HUGE problem in TALKING and COMMUNICATING. We miss out on so many things because we are not listening to others, because we are sure of our own opinions (and afraid that another might be correct)...

I could write a book about this.

[tiger50]

Hey guys, i share the load i do washing, and dishes, she does more of this , but then i do the outside werk.... but whatever werks for uuuuu, .
hey i am the only one that feeds the roo....

[gitfiddlejones]

I am not too concerned with traditional gender roles. I do a lot of the traditionally "female" things around the house, and i ENJOY DOING THEM. i'D BE KIND OF A BASTARD IF i DIDN'T DO MY SHARE. By the way, I hate caps-lock. This will be a recurring theme for me, as I hit it all the time on accident.


I told you I don't type very well.

Anyway, while the other little boys were busy learning sports and being little misanthropes, I was learning how to do things at my mother's side. I hung out with girls a lot. Most of the boys thought I was kinda gay, until I started stealing their girlfriends in high school. They played football, I joined the drama club. They wanted vapid cheerleader types, I LOVED the dramatic ice-queens of the drama club. Set phasers to "melt" :D

I suppose it was easier for me than most, as my whole family had a well deserved rep for being tough. It's kinda like the old saw "What does a 280 pound gorilla eat... whatever he wants".

In fact, I am about to go clean house in a few minutes... iPod at the ready, in my undies and my fur lined slippers, hounds at the ready.

GFJ

[Jy]

You have a kangaroo?! Can I feed him??



Hey guys, i share the load i do washing, and dishes, she does more of this , but then i do the outside werk.... but whatever werks for uuuuu, .
hey i am the only one that feeds the roo....

[Jy]

Thank you for sharing your story with us Blue!

[Penny]

In fact, I am about to go clean house in a few minutes... iPod at the ready, in my undies and my fur lined slippers, hounds at the ready

Need to see that lol

[sweetgapeach]

I actually found someone who loves me for who I am and sees all the beauty inside and outside.



Thats the best part !! Thanks for sharing .

[hank69]

Hey guys, i share the load i do washing, and dishes, she does more of this , but then i do the outside werk.... but whatever werks for uuuuu, .
hey i am the only one that feeds the roo....


:lf same here I help most of the time with whatever needs done. If I don't I'll get a :sp: ( I think I'll not help tommorw..he ..he..)

[Cotties]

Tigers a son of a roo shooter.......make sure you stand very still Jazzy when feeding them. You have a kangaroo?! Can I feed him??

[Jy]

One's role as a wife? I guess it varies for everyone, but for me, it's about a partnership. I'[ve never needed a sugar daddy or a knight in shining armour, just someone to share the journey with. Sharing our lives and all that it entails; good times, bad times, dishes, laundry, raising the kids, sharing the victories...

[Sandy]

well i guess i'm like sweet, i'm lucky i have someone who loves me faults and all. i can be myself with him. its always been that way with us. and when we're together i know theres nothing we can't do.

[firefly]

Aahh....a newlywed! Congratulations Blue and like mywife said, never lose sight of ya'll love.

Thank you for sharing.

[Zpanther]

Okay, one more thing, then I promise to take this damn soapbox to another thread!

What?! You're gonna move it again? :confused:

[SirFox]

maybe i got this topic all this wrong...but some men, not all, seem to take women for granted...like "hey now there is a woman for me to do this and this and this so i dont have to do it!!"...yeah my boyfrined is great...but i have to tell him to help me w/things around the house...especially laundry...and i try to make cooking somethin we both do...but for awhile there it was just me cooking...and i got fustrated

Princess: May I suggest you take some courses in mind reading if you want your man to do things that you think absolutely essential? According to you, your boyfriend should also be a CLEAN FREAK? I do not thing so. Seems to me that you both should do some serious talking and COMMUNICATING...before your relationship breaks.

I am sure that you have no problem talking with him. Do you listen to what he says and he doesn't say?

[tiger50]

You have a kangaroo?! Can I feed him??


Yeh jazz u can feed her..... if u ave a death wish...lol......

[MCat]

:lf same here I help most of the time with whatever needs done. If I don't I'll get a :sp: ( I think I'll not help tommorw..he ..he..)

Ok Hank, you're gonna get it :blowjob: oh I mean :sp:

[tiger50]

Tigers a son of a roo shooter.......make sure you stand very still Jazzy when feeding them.

You got it mate..lol... the roo makes the karate kid look like a bloody ameteur..... that roo has a BIG kick...... :D

[KIRA187]

Aahh....a newlywed! Congratulations Blue and like mywife said, never lose sight of ya'll love.

Thank you for sharing.

Ya'll?!? cant tell you are from a southern state fire! Say Hey!

[firefly]

:D Hush boy or I'll go cut a switch to use on you!

Besides ya'll is a legitimate word.....well around here it is anyhow!;)

[Barkiss]

:D Hush boy or I'll go cut a switch to use on you!

Besides ya'll is a legitimate word.....well around here it is anyhow!;)

Don't let the yanks tell you any different...

Ya'll and ain't are both acceptable...How else are we suppose to say "you all" and "am not"???

[firefly]

Don't let the yanks tell you any different...

Ya'll and ain't are both acceptable...How else are we suppose to say "you all" and "am not"???

:nu Are you implying sir, that we southerners are too lazy to say the complete phrase? ;)

[Barkiss]

:nu Are you implying sir, that we southerners are too lazy to say the complete phrase? ;)

No ma'am...I'm defending you and my homeland..

[Norfolkdave]

No ma'am...I'm defending you and my homeland..

Ya.ll be 10 steps or 20 my man!:D

[KIRA187]

Hush boy or I'll go cut a switch to use on you!



Besides ya'll is a legitimate word.....well around here it is anyhow!

Didn't mean to go disrespectin ya maam. ;-) I do like a southern type accent. Only teasing you Fire... Haven't seen ya round so just saying HI!!

Never had a switch taken to me.... could be interesting.

[firefly]

No ma'am...I'm defending you and my homeland..

:gs Good boy! :kk

[firefly]

Didn't mean to go disrespectin ya maam. ;-) I do like a southern type accent. Only teasing you Fire... Haven't seen ya round so just saying HI!!

Never had a switch taken to me.... could be interesting.

:wa: Howdy! I know you were just teasing Kira.....and even though you are a Yankee....I like you anyhow. ;)

Since you've never had a switch taken to you I promise to be gentle....well a little. :D

[KIRA187]

Howdy! I know you were just teasing Kira.....and even though you are a Yankee....I like you anyhow.

Since you've never had a switch taken to you I promise to be gentle....well a little.

Oh you dont have to be gentle. Give me what you got. I even have a pair of boxers with the southern flag and I like lynard skynard....

[Norfolkdave]

As I was born in Cincinnati, am I a yankee or a Southerner, need to know before I put my foot in it!

[firefly]

Oh you dont have to be gentle. Give me what you got. I even have a pair of boxers with the southern flag and I like lynard skynard....

Ok...remember you said that! ;)

Well then that qualifies you for honorary good ole boy status! Any man who like Skynard is ok in my book! :kk

[firefly]

As I was born in Cincinnati, am I a yankee or a Southerner, need to know before I put my foot in it!

Really? Wow Dave I never knew that, I thought you were English born and bred. Ohio isn't really on either side, but I would say you are closer to Yankee then Southern. Sorry Chap! ;) :kk

[Norfolkdave]

Really? Wow Dave I never knew that, I thought you were English born and bred. Ohio isn't really on either side, but I would say you are closer to Yankee then Southern. Sorry Chap! ;) :kk

1946 I was born in Hamilton Hospital, was brought over to the UK at the age of 3 months, been here ever since. Got 56 cousins in the states and only seen 2 when they came to England. Never renewed my passport, too late now. Would love to have seen them or kept in contact via the internet. My real father passed away 7 years ago, I dont get on with my stepfather. My mother passed away 5 years ago. I got docuements relating to Amercia, and I know my father worked at The Baldwin piano company long long ago. I keep in contact with my Aunt and Uncle but the others I only have a photo of.

[KIRA187]

As I was born in Cincinnati, am I a yankee or a Southerner, need to know before I put my foot in it!

If Cinncy is below the Mason Dixon Line then you are a southener. If it is above that line you are a yankee.

[Trev]

We have a water tower saying Ya'll. Its a fixture, everyone in the area knows where its at and if you travel the 75 north or south you must pass it to go through the area.

[KIRA187]

Ok...remember you said that!

Well then that qualifies you for honorary good ole boy status! Any man who like Skynard is ok in my book!

Sweet!! Do I get a card and preferred status too?

[firefly]

Sweet!! Do I get a card and preferred status too?

:lmao I said honorary....you have to work your way up to full fledge card carrying member! But you already have preferred status. :kk

[firefly]

We have a water tower saying Ya'll. Its a fixture, everyone in the area knows where its at and if you travel the 75 north or south you must pass it to go through the area.

:D See! If it's printed on a water tower it has to be a legitimate word!
Thank you Trev for giving it validation! :kk

[MCat]

We have a water tower saying Ya'll. Its a fixture, everyone in the area knows where its at and if you travel the 75 north or south you must pass it to go through the area.

I can just imagine that water tower....

My dads father was from Kentucky...that side of my family has a little to be desired...My dads cousin is his half brother and his aunt is his step-daddys sister.
Damn are we screwed up or what :D

[KIRA187]

See! If it's printed on a water tower it has to be a legitimate word!

Thank you Trev for giving it validation!

Alright then Firefly..... If is is on a water tower then it must be legit!!


I said honorary....you have to work your way up to full fledge card carrying member! But you already have preferred status.

Yeah Baby!!! How does one get to be a card carrying member? I never shirk hard work if it is worth working for.

[firefly]

I can just imagine that water tower....

My dads father was from Kentucky...that side of my family has a little to be desired...My dads cousin is his half brother and his aunt is his step-daddys sister.
Damn are we screwed up or what :D

:lmao Oh man....I don't even know what to say to that!

[firefly]

Alright then Firefly..... If is is on a water tower then it must be legit!!

Damn Skippy! :D


Yeah Baby!!! How does one get to be a card carrying member? I never shirk hard work if it is worth working for.

We will have to discuss that....but I have no doubt that you will rise to the occassion! ;)

[KIRA187]

Damn Skippy!


We will have to discuss that....but I have no doubt that you will rise to the occassion!

OH you know we too well!!

[sir1279]

1946 I was born in Hamilton Hospital, was brought over to the UK at the age of 3 months, been here ever since. Got 56 cousins in the states and only seen 2 when they came to England. Never renewed my passport, too late now. Would love to have seen them or kept in contact via the internet. My real father passed away 7 years ago, I dont get on with my stepfather. My mother passed away 5 years ago. I got docuements relating to Amercia, and I know my father worked at The Baldwin piano company long long ago. I keep in contact with my Aunt and Uncle but the others I only have a photo of.Dave its never to late to travel especialy to visit family....

[firefly]

OH you know we too well!!

:lf Well enough to have supreme comfidence in you and your abilities! ;)

[firefly]

Dave its never to late to travel especialy to visit family....

He's right Dave....I bet they would be thrilled to see you!

[Trev]

I can just imagine that water tower....

My dads father was from Kentucky...that side of my family has a little to be desired...My dads cousin is his half brother and his aunt is his step-daddys sister.
Damn are we screwed up or what :D

So what are you really trying to tell me? So were related, I knew someone out there must me part of the family. :lmao

[Zpanther]

:lmao Oh man....I don't even know what to say to that!

Sure you do....... but you're probably right to keep it to yourself. ;)

[Sunfiresix]

Very good story, your life can only get better.

[Norfolkdave]

Dave its never to late to travel especialy to visit family....

I know my friend but with things happening now its impossible, for a start there are complications in the passport dept, lets say I could stir up a can of worms, and to tell you all, I will one day and if advice can be given I,ll take it, but it will be a long story.

[tiger50]

I can just imagine that water tower....

My dads father was from Kentucky...that side of my family has a little to be desired...My dads cousin is his half brother and his aunt is his step-daddys sister.
Damn are we screwed up or what :D

lol sounds like Tasmania, they have the view that the family that bonks together stays together...

[Jy]

So, this thread seems to touch on some issues that another thread talked about, and that's women's roles as wives, which often -but not always- includes the roles of mother, caregiver to elderly parents, homemaker, and working outside the home.

How many hats do you wear in your home? And how to find a balance? Or are you juggling it all while standing on your tiptoes on a circus ball?

[Jy]

And men, how do you see your wife's role? Do you think she takes on too much? Wears too many hats? Does she seem happy?

[Zpanther]

And men, how do you see your wife's role? Do you think she takes on too much? Wears too many hats? Does she seem happy?

No problem there with Lady P. She knows how to say 'I've got other priorities right now, so do it yourself if you want it done.' And one of her priorities is setting time aside for herself and for us. She's willing to help out a family member or friend, but very good at not getting trapped into allowing it to be an ongoing thing. ..... same thing around here. I like meat and potatoes type food. She doesn't. So I know I need to cook it myself. that attitude can be aggravating at times, but also has it's rewards...... :sex

[Sandy]

jazzy honey, i juggle everything not just here but with my family to and work also, sometimes i have on so many hats i don't know where my head is ....lol:D

[spare_change]

Wow -- I haven't been beat up in a week or so, I think I'll answer this thread!

What do I see as the wife's role? Marriage is like a team. Each member has his or her areas of responsibility - the areas in which he/she sets the standards, determines the course of action, and enlists the assistance of the other.

The wife's first responsibility is management of the home and caring for the children. Just like in my office, she manages the home - just like in my office, this means she has to wear many hats. Just like in my office, she has to operate with limited funds. If she can figure out a way to hire somebody to do the work, fine -- if not, just like in the office, she has to do it herself. Just like in the office, she needs to figure out how to provide the needed services on limited budget. Just like in my office, she needs to prioritize the tasks, and in some cases, sacrifice the ones less important. Just like in my office, she needs to manage the personnel resources in order to get the job done. Just like in my office, failure is not an option.

Because of her availability, she must take the lead role in rearing the children. It is she that sets the standards, establishes the methodologies. That doesn't mean the man doesn't have a responsibility - it merely means that she is in charge, whether she likes it or not.

If, and only if, those can be done, and there is time left over, then her role can expand to include other areas -- a job, charity work, whatever. But, always, her first responsibility is to the family unit, just as his first responsibility is to the family unit. All other "roles" should be secondary to that.

[spare_change]

So, this thread seems to touch on some issues that another thread talked about, and that's women's roles as wives, which often -but not always- includes the roles of mother, caregiver to elderly parents, homemaker, and working outside the home.

How many hats do you wear in your home? And how to find a balance? Or are you juggling it all while standing on your tiptoes on a circus ball?

I would suggest that, in fact, you never "find a balance". In most cases, you sacrifice one thing for another.

[Jy]

Nice use of my soapbox honey. All good points actually, and very much like my husband and I run things, but I do have a question. It doesn't apply to me, as I don't work nearly as many hours as my husband, but I know many of the woman here work full time.
If both spouses are working the same number of hours, then your arrangement doesn't necessarily apply, does it? What if the wife needs to work for financial reasons, or because her benefit package is better? Lots of working moms are doing it for the money, not because they're devoted to their jobs.
In my case, we decided to downsize so that my income wouldn't be necessary, but every situation is different.


Wow -- I haven't been beat up in a week or so, I think I'll answer this thread!

What do I see as the wife's role? Marriage is like a team. Each member has his or her areas of responsibility - the areas in which he/she sets the standards, determines the course of action, and enlists the assistance of the other.

The wife's first responsibility is management of the home and caring for the children. Just like in my office, she manages the home - just like in my office, this means she has to wear many hats. Just like in my office, she has to operate with limited funds. If she can figure out a way to hire somebody to do the work, fine -- if not, just like in the office, she has to do it herself. Just like in the office, she needs to figure out how to provide the needed services on limited budget. Just like in my office, she needs to prioritize the tasks, and in some cases, sacrifice the ones less important. Just like in my office, she needs to manage the personnel resources in order to get the job done. Just like in my office, failure is not an option.

Because of her availability, she must take the lead role in rearing the children. It is she that sets the standards, establishes the methodologies. That doesn't mean the man doesn't have a responsibility - it merely means that she is in charge, whether she likes it or not.

If, and only if, those can be done, and there is time left over, then her role can expand to include other areas -- a job, charity work, whatever. But, always, her first responsibility is to the family unit, just as his first responsibility is to the family unit. All other "roles" should be secondary to that.

[spare_change]

Nice use of my soapbox honey. All good points actually, and very much like my husband and I run things, but I do have a question. It doesn't apply to me, as I don't work nearly as many hours as my husband, but I know many of the woman here work full time.
If both spouses are working the same number of hours, then your arrangement doesn't necessarily apply, does it? What if the wife needs to work for financial reasons, or because her benefit package is better? Lots of working moms are doing it for the money, not because they're devoted to their jobs.
In my case, we decided to downsize so that my income wouldn't be necessary, but every situation is different.

You have fallen into what is called the dual income trap. I haven't talked much about what I do in real life -- but it's applicable here. I am a financial strategist - not a financial advisor -- it is my job to ensure that my clients use their money in the most efficient manner in order to realize the maximum return.

Consistently, we have two-income families come to us because they can't seem to get ahead. In about 80% of the cases, we tell one of them to quit their job and stay home. That's because the cost of the second person working generally exceeds the income being generated. The salary being brought in by the second person is a myth -- you bring it in, but you pay more out for the right to earn it. Some of the costs are obvious -- child care, transportation, clothes, etc. But, most of them are hidden costs -- eating out more often because you're tired, buying ready-to-eat foods because it's easier, etc.

Now, i'm sure that we are going to hear from site members who will say that if it wasn't for the second income, they wouldn't survive. I guess it depends on how you define "survive". If driving a 2004 car vs. a 1999 car is your definition of "survive", then it's something to look at. But, if you look at it from a purely financial point of view - money out vs. money in -- dual income families are generally a money losing proposition.

But, even if you were to be in the other 20%, you need to think about what it is costing the family. What price are the kids paying? Is it really worth it?

[Jy]

Well, coming from someone who works no more than 12 hours a week outside the home, you're preaching to the choir here sweetheart. My days of working full time outside of the home came to an end the day my son was born.

I make a point of earning well below the personal basic claim for income here in Ontario, so hubby can still claim me as a dependant. It makes more sense financially, and I get to raise our son.

[Cotties]

Wow you two can be intense! intersting but intense

I earn 6 times what my wife earns. She does about double the hours minus a bit. She likes work and I like her being there. as for my finances. We will be broke until I save up and change countries. Irrelevant I know.. her role as a wife is simple. Be my better half and I will try and give her the world.

[Jy]

Intense! Absolutely! Some day I'll show you the pictures of the hotel room in Tahiti!

You sound like a devoted husband. You have a very lucky wife.
Before we our son, I worked like a dog, because I loved my job and didn't worry about what income bracket it put me in. Didn't matter then. Couples without kids have different priorities, and that's as it should be. Do what works for you. Obviously you and your wife are! Kudos to you!

[Shiane]

My Hats 1. Mom 2. Wife 3. cook 4. maid 5. Taxi 6.Tutor 7. Shopper 8. Nurse @ work 9.nurse @ home 10. community nurse & pharmacist 11. Animal control 12. answering machine 13. Hall monitor 14. decision maker, and I only get a paycheck from one of these jobs lol.
I make twice as much as my husband does, so it's not really fesible for me to stay home. Not that I wouldn't want to, and we could get by on one salary, but that ain't going to happen. I dont want to live pay check to pay check and be $350,000 in debt. I don't think there is a right or a wrong answer about dual incomes. I think you have to make the decision thats right for you and your family.

[Zpanther]

I've got the urge to get out my soapbox here, but hesitant to appear too judgemental. Oh, I guess I will anyway.

I'd like to think I'm pretty good at what I've done for a vocation most of my life and it seems to me that you are too Spare. Financial strategy is your area of expertise so I would be very hesitant to argue if I didn't agree with what you're saying. Actually no. I probably wouldn't be hesitant to argue because I like doing that, but the fact is you know a lot more than I do about that subject. But for what it's worth I do agree anyway, so... It seems to me that most of that is just common sense if people stop and think about it. Obviously a lot of people don't and that's one reason so many of them have to deal with the stress of financial insecurity.

As far as the wife's role in a relationship, I don't disagree with much if anything of what Spare has said here either. I have some hesitancy with the description of a marriage relationship as a 'team' or 'partnership' though. Each partner does have a role and the description Spare has given of a wife's role is one that I think does work. However, I don't think it works too well if it's a pure partnership........ just like in business. I don't know what the figures are, but most of the business partnerships I've seen didn't last over the long term. Two of my sons tried business parnerships and in both cases they eventually had to dissolve the partnership because of disagreement over roles, goals and objectives, business expenditures, etc.

I recognize that each partner has to have a role, there has to be a genuine interest and willingness to discuss issues as they arise, a willingness by both parties to consider the expressed ideas and concepts, needs, desires, expectations, etc. of the other, willingness to compromise, and regular communication. However, even when there's agreement on most issues, there will always be something that comes up where the issue is discussed and understood, but there is just a fundamental difference of opinion. In those instances, someone has to be the dominant partner and make the decision. If the other partner is unwilling to accept that, then problems develop and solutions are difficult. Naturally, if a decision is made and accepted by other party even though they disagree, and it the result isn't satisfactory there is a tendency for the consenting partner to say 'I told you so' and on and on.

For that reason I'm not a big fan of headless committees or groups. Group meetings are necessary and helpful if it's done right. But there should be a clear purpose for the group's existence, each member should have a specific role based on some kind of individual expertise or position of responsibility and someone has to be ultimately responsible and have authority for making a final decision on issues they are addressing. Now having said that, I recognize that it can be beneficial for a group of people to meet occasionally or even regularly for the purpose of just discussing ideas, issues, and concepts with maybe just a moderator to facilitate the discussion.... as long as it's purpose isn't to reach a decision intended to solve a problem.

I could go on with the analogy and I thought about using a sports analogy being as teamwork is part of any marriage relationship, but I guess the point I'm trying to make here is I think it's important for both partners to accept that one of them will be ultimately responsible for making a decision on issues when there is disagreement.

[Norfolkdave]

If Cinncy is below the Mason Dixon Line then you are a southener. If it is above that line you are a yankee.

The place I was born was ( on my birth certificate) Hamilton Hospital Ohio, so I have no idea where the line is that would represent anything, Im afraid I need help here. ( Im thick);)

[spare_change]

Cool !!! I was hoping somebody would argue --errr--- discuss!!!

Ladies! Gentlemen! Does a good relationship require equality? Does a good relationship require that one have the ultimate authority? If so, who's in charge at your house? Who makes the final decision, and if it's not you, how do you like that?

[Norfolkdave]

In our home we both make decisions, no one has the ultimate authority,if we did, I actually dont mind if it was my wife, but we are equal in the final decision although we play fight so to speak and squabble, the ultimate is joint. Its always " shall we, do we, ok lets do it" it gets done.

[MCat]

Cool !!! I was hoping somebody would argue --errr--- discuss!!!

Ladies! Gentlemen! Does a good relationship require equality? Does a good relationship require that one have the ultimate authority? If so, who's in charge at your house? Who makes the final decision, and if it's not you, how do you like that?

I think there is equality in somethings but not all, there can't be - men and women are too different to be totally equal. I would prefer if my spouse had the ultimate authority, made most of the major decisions, but not all. I wish we would have done that when our marriage was new, it would have been better for our marriage, our family and our finances.

[Sunfiresix]

Marycat is right, but both need to agree on most things.

[Sandy]

yes we do need to agree on things. but you also have to discuss things and listen to each other to.

[Sunfiresix]

I meant that, then you mutually can agree as long as it is beneficial for both.

[Cotties]

I force my wife to agree with me so we are equal in decision making.

[Jy]

No, as MC said, men and women are different, and both genders have their strengths and weaknesses. Regardless of who is running things though, there needs to be mutual respect. That is essential. Without it, nothing else matters.



Cool !!! I was hoping somebody would argue --errr--- discuss!!!

Ladies! Gentlemen! Does a good relationship require equality? Does a good relationship require that one have the ultimate authority? If so, who's in charge at your house? Who makes the final decision, and if it's not you, how do you like that?

[Zpanther]

I think some of this DOES depend on where you're at in life.

The roles in our relationship are now much different than they were in our early years. We had the traditional relationship where I made the money to pay the bills and she took care of things at home. She willingly worked when she could find a job that didn't interfere with her home responsibilities. We were both very busy and it was sometimes difficult to find time and energy for things like sex. Our roles in our relationship were not always comfortable, but they were defined and accepted by both of us.

The boys left the nest and I retired and began a series of extended absences. Our roles in our relationship had to change. She finally had the opportunity to utilize her education degree and find a job doing something she was interested in doing for the experience and not because of financial pressure. With me gone most of the time, she had to get accustomed to making all the routine financial decions and taking care of any family issues as well as care and continued maintenance of our home.

She now has a full time job that's demanding and she's accustomed to spending an additional 1 to 2 hours a day when she gets home maintaining physical fitness. I also have a demanding job when I'm working, but have all kinds of time when I'm home. (That's when I spend a lot of time on here). I would have never thought of doing household chores (cooking, cleaning, washing, etc.) during the early years, but I don't mind doing those things at all now when I'm home. We have extended periods without regular sex, so it's understandable that we can't get enough of that when I'm home, and there are no longer any children that demand attention or represent a distraction. We can pretty much do whatever we want whenever we want and it IS a lot of fun.

There are other changes to the traditional relationship we were accustomed to for so many years now that the circumstances have changed and those can be a significant challenge. We always seem to be able to find ways to come to a mutually satisfactory solution, but the process of accepting change can be irritating and and unsettling at times.

[Shiane]

Ladies! Gentlemen! Does a good relationship require equality? Does a good relationship require that one have the ultimate authority? If so, who's in charge at your house? Who makes the final decision, and if it's not you, how do you like that?

First of all doesn't "equality" or equal mean :sc

Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another.
Mathematics. Being the same or identical to in value.


Having the same privileges, status, or rights: equal before the law.
Being the same for all members of a group: Having the requisite qualities, such as strength or ability, for a task or situation: Adequate in extent, amount, or degree.
I have to say that I'm the major decision maker at my house, If I say no, then it's a no go. Don't get me wrong here "we" discuss everything, he asks my opinion and I in turn ask his. I'm not a dictator that says by-God we're doing it this way, I just voice my opinion, my reasoning behind my decision and not all the time but the majority of the time he agrees with me. Like buying something new, he tends to want newer, and bigger and better things. I'm like what the hell is wrong with the one we have, granted it may not be the newest one on the block but it serves our purpose and the damn thing is or almost paid for. Now if I won the lottery with oodles and millions to spare then we might be a little more frivilous with our spending. No i'm not so tight that I squeak when I walk, I'm just very practical. Granted we have spent money on things that other people would not, like paying 5,000.00 for a horse lol and yes my horse in case you're wondering. The decision on how we discipline out children falls to me, I figure if i'm going to have to be the bad guy then i'm by-God going to be the one who decides what to do. It is a joint effort to hold things together, we each have our own responsibilities. In our marriage we are equals, maybe not in every aspect but as a whole. We treat each other with respect. We try hard not to say or do things that hurt each other and the key word here is try lol Spare dont even bring up the cell phone thing:nu, I said try. We try hard to be considerate of each others wants, needs, and desires. It's give and take on both our parts. If he gives 100% and I give 100% you take that 100, divide it by 2 you get 50, and thats what makes our marriage work, its 50-50. I feel like if a marriage isn't 50-50 it isn't a partnership or a democracy, if one is a dictator and the other is a silent partner it's a Monarchy, mono meaning one and you can't have a successful marriage with one(yourself).


Now i'm going to try to crawl off this soap-box before someone pushes me off. Like I said before, I'm very opinionated, and if I have an opinion you can bet your sweet ass I'm going to give it to you. All you gentlemen out there better be thankful you aren't married to me lol.

[spare_change]

Wow!!! I was just thinking the same thing!!

What do you do when you fundamentally disagree? When he won't give an inch and neither will you? Does your opinion take precedence? Do you let it simmer until i boils over again?

Cell phone??? What cell phone? If I remember right, you lost that one!! :lmao:lmao

[Shiane]

Wow!!! I was just thinking the same thing!!

What do you do when you fundamentally disagree? When he won't give an inch and neither will you? Does your opinion take precedence? Do you let it simmer until i boils over again?

Cell phone??? What cell phone? If I remember right, you lost that one!! :lmao:lmao

Alright smartass I knew you'de have to put your two cents worth in!:55 YES gawd dammit I was WRONG about the cell phone thing and I am WOMAN enough to admit it, BUT in my defense had he jerked his head outta his ass the first time there wouldn't have been an "incident" lol!:nu

We have never came across anything that we disagreed on so strongly that neither of us would budge. It's all give and take, and so far it has worked for us. We are like a fabulous dinner and a vintage wine, we compliment each other, maybe thats why it works. (with the exclusion of cell phones):lmao

[Zifnab]

We have a form of equality in my home. We each have areas where we are more experienced than the other and so we defer to that person's judgement in such cases. Of course opinion is accepted (even when she is wrong). But it works out to our mutual advantage to let the one who knows handle it.

[Jy]

I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...


Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

[tiger50]

I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...


Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?


not goin there, i dont help coz i wudnt be doin it rite.... :D

[Cotties]

shit stirer Jaz


I pay the bills and that gives me a right to be bloody lazy. she don't like it she can leave.

Talks cheap;)
I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...


Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

[SirFox]

I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...

Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?


There are several ways to look at this including co-operating with the enemy, (if you consider your partner to be your enemy), partaking of the chores fifty-fifty...and letting her do it all.

On the one hand, it seems to me that men must remain men, and on the other hand, give a hand to our partners particulalarly if we both work. If your lady is at home and not working or tending to the kids, then there may be some imbalance there of chores.

[Zpanther]

I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...


Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

My goodness! This is definitely a Jazzy hotbutton. Last time I 'helped' Lady P with the laundry she got pissed off that I used too much soap and the wrong setting, so I pretty much stay outta the laundry room unless she's outta town for a few days.

[Sunfiresix]

Jazzy was replying to a post I put in. I amended that one because I do really do most of the chores now that she isn't well and I was going down to take stuff out of the dryer so she could fold it, she insists on doing that. Up until her ilness everything got done by whoever got to it we had no specific duties. It always worked well for us.

[Sandy]

hey at leasy you tried z.

[Gfrog]

Could always use a little help with laundry!!! LOL

[Jy]

Actually, it's not a hotbutton in our house ZP. We have a pretty good arrangement. Not perfect, but we're both happy with it. I thought I'd dig it up just to hear from some of the new members to see how they split the chorse in their homes, and of they think it's a fair arrangement.

I give you credit for at least trying to do the laundry. I never look a gifthorse in the mouth, and if my husband wants to contribute, I turn a blind eye if he doesn't do it exactly the way iIwould.

My goodness! This is definitely a Jazzy hotbutton. Last time I 'helped' Lady P with the laundry she got pissed off that I used too much soap and the wrong setting, so I pretty much stay outta the laundry room unless she's outta town for a few days.

[Gfrog]

I agree Jazzy!! If my husband tries to help and more power to him!!! I appreciate all the help I can get!! LOL

[cuddles]

well sweet i agree with you i have never had any children ive held down 3 jobs at once and my husband held one he would always complain about being tired all the time i came home and blew up at him told him i was gonna go on strike he could cook clean for himself i want rewards that goes with being married so i said to him when you can make love to me i will cook and clean again for you but not untill then;)

[SirFox]

Actually, it's not a hotbutton in our house ZP. We have a pretty good arrangement. Not perfect, but we're both happy with it. I thought I'd dig it up just to hear from some of the new members to see how they split the chorse in their homes, and of they think it's a fair arrangement.

I give you credit for at least trying to do the laundry. I never look a gifthorse in the mouth, and if my husband wants to contribute, I turn a blind eye if he doesn't do it exactly the way iIwould.

Outhouses in many places no longer exist, however when you do a summer retreat in some places, some "people" need to take the pails of you know what out....Guess whose job that is in the first place. Men or boys!.

When there are not enough men or boye to go around, then it depends upon the arrangement.....That job will be considered a man's job by both men and women. Does that necessarily mean that one or the other gender needs to do it?

Indeed, there are women who will say that they would take the pail of excrements out to the fertilizer heap....the truth is ...ladies do not want to do it, men do it because it is a "man's job".....

There are quite a few jobs like that where men dirty their hands, women not.... So I believe that ladies can do the laundry....

I also believe that ladies ought to be thankful for their washing machines when more than 50% of the World still washes clothes in streams, rivers or public washing areas. You can stay in your slippers and do the laundry, Ladies....

In my case, as I am an eligible bachelor living at home, and alone, I am obliged to do the laundry. First marriage, she did the laundry, and second marriage, we did it fifty-fifty, and my second wife also hated to cook....
which proved disastrous for me. What a letdown.
:sc

[DazedSooner]

As this is my first post i can say this that the balance of housework, chore, or whatever you want to call it IMO depends on how physically demanding your job is.

As there are allot of days i can barely get out of my truck and get into the house. But that being said i do useally do allot of the chores around our house.

[Norfolkdave]

Hello Dazedsooner welcome to the site, I hope you find what your looking for, we are all a friendly bunch.

[Penny]

Welcome Dazed:kk



As this is my first post i can say this that the balance of housework, chore, or whatever you want to call it IMO depends on how physically demanding your job is.

As there are allot of days i can barely get out of my truck and get into the house. But that being said i do useally do allot of the chores around our house.

[Rainmaker]

Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsiblity and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

Which in turn got a whole new topic started that obviously deserves its own thread. I will post the relevant replies here, then we can continue the discussion...

my hub and i use to split the housework...since i have become OCD....I do it all....Im not a neat freak...but i love a clean house...i want ppl to walk in my house and it smell like i have been baking.... i love a freshly vacuumed floor...my hub still does his share....but i end up going over what he has done....plus i got tired of our white clothes turning pink-lol...so i guess my role is....cleaning..taking care of kids..running his company.....and etc etc... his is making the money

[MCat]

Outhouses in many places no longer exist, however when you do a summer retreat in some places, so