Traditional Male/Female roles

[Jy]

Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsiblity and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

Which in turn got a whole new topic started that obviously deserves its own thread. I will post the relevant replies here, then we can continue the discussion...

[romancer522000]

I have never felt that there was anything that was not my work . I guess i watched my dad when i was young who helped with all duties around the house . Having a mess of kids I had no problem with changing diapers , doing laundry , cooking meals or doing the shopping . But i refused and so did the kids to breastfeed !!!!!! All this has left me feel quite good about myself in that i know i can take care of myself or anyone at all .

[Jy]

Annie said:
Jazzy, you crack me up! Once, not long after our son was born my husband told a friend he was "babysitting"... let me assure you it was the last time he ever referred to his fatherly responsiblities again using that word!

Walter said:
My wife always used the term it was a "Guy's night" (We have a son)
I never made the mistake of using the term "Babysitting" but some of her girlfriends did!

I said:
And that gets me going even more!! Women who perpetuate this polarized dynamic!
Of course there are many women out there who like to encourage this myth because they like to think that the world would stop revolving without them, and that their families would perish if it wasn't for them.
We all need to remember that each family remember is an integral part of the unit. Everyone needs to contribute, everyone needs to feel worthwhile, and everyone needs to put their damn coffee cups in the dishwasher and not leave them all over the house!!
Oh, wait...that's at my house...
To which Annie and Lena agreed.

[Jy]

Spare said:

Now you JUST knew i was going to respond................

but, first, let me say this ----- MC, that is one knockout of an avatar!!!!!!!

Your treatise continues the blurring of traditional male-female roles, a feat that some would say needs to be done, while others would say is catastrophic.

The feminization of males, particularly in the US, has had a deleterious effect on the social roles. Even worse, the masculinization of women has generated a whole new set of social laws. For example, 30 years ago, it was inconceivable that a man would walk away from his responsibility to a newborn. In 2004, 37% of all births in the United States were to single mothers, and in the black community, over 50% of all births were to single mothers. In addition, 40% of the child support required by non-custodial fathers is not paid. Clearly, the role of men as providers has been compromised. No longer does he feel the responsibility to care for the children he spawns, or the bearer of those children.

In addition, 54% of all teenage girls have participated in oral sex By THE TIME THEY ARE 16. Of that 54%, 81% had engaged in oral sex BEFORE the age of 15. No longer does there seem to be a need for male-female relationship establishment.

So, what does that have to do with dirty coffee cups? Only that couples make their own rules -- most of the men here will say that they help with the housework AND bring home the majority of the income. Which leads to the next issue -- working mothers. The National Institute of Health just released a study that showed that the average working mother makes $24,352 a year. After expenses for work and child care, and considering the increased cost of living as a result of working (eating out more, or buying convenience foods), the actual increase in spending capital per household is --- are you ready for this? --- less than $2,150 per year. That means that she earned approximately $1.10 per hour in disposable income. So, with so little return on the effort, and the documented damage done to children as result of mothers working, why do they do it? Materialism? Escapism?

So, each relationship is a negotiated settlement. He will do this, and she will do that. To try to stereotype it is impossible, and frankly, to complain here accomplishes nothing. Talk to your spouse -- negotiate your own deal.are

[Jy]

Kira said:


After I read and reread what spare had to say and all the stats that were provided it made me recall a talk show I had just watched. Part of the show was a discussion of the trend that seems to be happening with women. They are no longer wanting the so called satisfaction of a job or a career. It is coming full circle again where a majority of the women are saying it is alright to want just stay at home and be the wife and let the man be the bread winner.
Maybe things would be better this way??? Any thoughts ladies??

[Jy]

Marycat said:


Ok, you asked for it....I think the world would be a better place if men and woman went back to the way things used to be....Men working to provide for the family and the woman taking care of the home, the husband and the children. It would also be nice it we could all afford to live that way.

My mom was a stay at home mom, my dad worked his ass off as a machinist. I remember him repairing lawnmowers and other peoples cars for extra money on the weekends and in the evening after he got home from work. She made most of our clothes, we always had enough to eat, an ok house, one car in the family and picnics on the weekends.

Mom went to work full time when I was 12 my sister was 10. She took care of little old ladies in their homes, like a private nurse would do. When I was 15 she got me a job cooking and doing laundry for an elderly wealthy couple in our town. I did that off and on till I was 18. Since then I have worked in our local hospital, most of my adult life. I did work in adult foster care for 10 years in a family owned business then back to the hospital where I am now.

We have never had the choice for me to be a stay at home mom. We needed the money and knew I would always have to work. Only once in our 30 years of marriage did I have the opportunity to be at home full time with my kids( and that was an accident, I couldn't find a job after moving back to town)....it lasted 2 years(It was the best 2 years), then back to work for me. I was lucky that I never had to use formal childcare, no money went out for that....my mom took care of them, when I worked in the family business they went to work with me when they were not in school. Or hubby and I worked different shifts so one of us would always be there for the kids.

I would have loved to be at home all the time everyday....its who I am, who I always wanted to be. Give me those babies and the station wagon. Sometimes it just does not work.

Hubby and I never talked about who was responsible for doing what in our home, we just always did it together, if it needed done one of us did it. I suppose If I figure it out, it will come out that I have done more of the cooking, the butt wiping, the room mothering, etc....only because he was working at one of the two jobs he has always held. His jobs were more physically demanding that mine...a man gets tired doing all that physical labor. My mind has been tired more often than my body....I think women were made to handle 16 different tasks at one time so we could care for the family while man brought home the bacon, venison,money-whatever.

I know there are single dads out there who do it all. I'm glad they have been able to step up....A dad is not the same as a mom though...something is missing....the mom stuff, the kissing, the nurturing, the gentleness that kids need.

I am one of the females who does not think its a good idea for women to be in combat - working in construction - working on the road crews - building bridges- street cops - prison guards in a male prison. Women are not physically made to do those jobs. I am not saying that all females need to be behind a desk or in the kitchen either. I have run my share of wire, insulated my house, changed tires & oil etc. I did it because it needed to be done for my family.

I love being a woman who is a good wife, a good mother and I'm very good at my job and yes in that order.

I don't go out drinking with the girls...Things happen, I might be tempted, and I'm not willing to risk our marriage just to have some party time. You won't find me smoking a cigar and farting down at the pub with the boys, I am not a man, I don't wish I was a man.

I am fortunate that my husband feels the same way I do when it comes to hanging out at the local bar. If we go out drinking we do it together.

Boy did I ramble.....it might not all make sense and it might not be in the right order.

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it !
__________________
The days are too short even for love;
how can there be enough time for quarreling?

[Jy]

Sunfiresix said:


Great story Marycat, my wife has always felt the same and I applaud her and women like her, kids would be so much better off. She did go out and work when we first married but once we blended our two families six kids between us, I managed two jobs and we enjoyed life. I miss all the old time family get togethes though.
Your story not too long but very well put. Hats off to you.

[sweetgapeach]

This is a tough one ! I have been a stay at home Mom , and was for 13 years . And now that I do work I feel I have two jobs !! I still have the same responsiblity as before but with added pressure.
Yes, my Hubby does work hard , but when he is at home , he looks at it as his time to rest. I look at it like this . When is it my time , where are my weekends ,when do I get to sleep in ?
He may do the dishes sometimes ,then acts like he did the most wonderful thing for me . Its crap !!
In this house , I cook ,clean,mow grass (he hasnt mowed grass prolly 6 times since the time we were married ) and take care of the kids. He has even said "Well , I watched the kids for you . I said Watched your kids for me?
I get frustrated and mad at times !! But I think since I have done it all I set myself up , to where its expected !!
I dont care if I am sick I will get woke up and asked whats for dinner , and i get up and do it !!
My Hubby tells me I have it easy, he works harder and makes more !! I think its a bunch of shit !!
If all I had to do was stay at home then I wouldnt and didnt mind doing it all ! Now when I am working it does !!

[Sunfiresix]

Was it my fault--I think I used the term helping because my wife is ill and I do most everything so I "help" her do things she likes to do, I have always just done stuff around the house, part of my responsibilty, we agreed neither would have specific duties when we became a blended family. Sorry about the term. Helped. No offense meant.

[Jy]

No offense taken honey. It just sparked a lively discussion, which is great! I enjoy hearing about other's solutions to chores, income, etc. and one post simply led to another, which started a new topic. We're notorious for going down bunny trails here! I don't think anyone was offended by your reference. I for oen know you're a saint.:kk

[surfnchat]

It's funny to think about it, but I think there are some "guy" roles that seem to pop up around the house... For example, I seem to be the one called on to kill the nasty-looking spiders around the house. I alse end up being put in charge of hooking up the new DVD player. I'm not saying that this is 100% of the time, but I've noticed... Anyone else have some examples?

[IntimateStranger]

In this house , I cook ,clean,mow grass (he hasnt mowed grass prolly 6 times since the time we were married ) and take care of the kids. He has even said "Well , I watched the kids for you . I said Watched your kids for me?
I get frustrated and mad at times !! But I think since I have done it all I set myself up , to where its expected !!
I dont care if I am sick I will get woke up and asked whats for dinner , and i get up and do it !!
My Hubby tells me I have it easy, he works harder and makes more !! I think its a bunch of shit !!
If all I had to do was stay at home then I wouldnt and didnt mind doing it all ! Now when I am working it does !!

If she mowed the grass once I would be riddled with guilt for weeks. The kids, well there as much mine, and I bet I have spent my share of time.

You get woke up when your sick and asked whats for dinner ?????

The Sweet in Sweetgapeach does not do you justice!!! :kk

[Sunfiresix]

Thanks for the compliment Hope I live up to it. I have always enjoyed doing things around the house, the rewards were always fantastic.

[Jy]

I kill the bugs, I assemble toys, hook up electronics (and quite well I might add!) I like puttering around with things, but the lawn cutting is his. He did landscaping when he was in university and has a real knack for it.




It's funny to think about it, but I think there are some "guy" roles that seem to pop up around the house... For example, I seem to be the one called on to kill the nasty-looking spiders around the house. I alse end up being put in charge of hooking up the new DVD player. I'm not saying that this is 100% of the time, but I've noticed... Anyone else have some examples?

[surfnchat]

I kill the bugs, I assemble toys, hook up electronics (and quite well I might add!) I like puttering around with things, but the lawn cutting is his. He did landscaping when he was in university and has a real knack for it.


What guy doesn't like trimming the bushes every now and then? ;)

[Sandy]

well sweet i can relate to you honey. i've done both also. and i work 2 jobs on top of it. and when i bitched at mark about it , i got well i put the roof over your head. i'll bet you i won't ever hear that again. but i'm still expected to do everything around here. i pitched a royal bitch fit, and told him to straighten up or get out. i'm not saying that that will work for you. but boy it has around here. i think it should be 50/50 you help make the mess. you help clean it up. and as far as the kids go, you layed down to have your fun, so when you get up. be a parent.

[Sunfiresix]

When We managed a complex my wife would beat me to the tractor to mow the 4.5 acres, she loved that stuff. Always been a team. The only wat it should be.

[Jy]

Marycat said:
I was lucky that I never had to use formal childcare, no money went out for that....my mom took care of them, when I worked in the family business they went to work with me when they were not in school. Or hubby and I worked different shifts so one of us would always be there for the kids. You're lucky MC! What a good arrangement! Otherwise you get into the duel income trap that Spare made reference to.

I would have loved to be at home all the time everyday....its who I am, who I always wanted to be. Give me those babies and the station wagon. We must have an extra "mom" gene or something! I love being a mom!
I think women were made to handle 16 different tasks at one time so we could care for the family while man brought home the bacon, venison,money-whatever. It's part of our genetic makeup; women and men are wired differently. I agree with you there...
I am one of the females who does not think its a good idea for women to be in combat - working in construction - working on the road crews - building bridges- street cops - prison guards in a male prison. Women are not physically made to do those jobs. I am not saying that all females need to be behind a desk or in the kitchen either. I have run my share of wire, insulated my house, changed tires & oil etc. I did it because it needed to be done for my family. I'm the one who putters around doing all those home repairs, because I like doing it, and God knows I'm into mutual respect of the sexes, but if I'm trapped in a burning building, I want 6ft., 220lb. man coming to rescue my ass, not the 150lb. 5'8" woman (wait! that would be me!) Women and men are different! That doesn't make one sex better than the other, mind you. There are certain jobs out there that women just aren't suited for physically. Why do some women have such a problem with that? The truth of the matter is, men are stronger. A man my same height and weight will be stronger than me. You can't get around that.

I love being a woman who is a good wife, a good mother and I'm very good at my job and yes in that order. I love being a woman too, and a wife and a mom, and a fitness instructor, and I love to fix the plumbing, build a sandbox, bake cookies, and put on the boxing gloves.

[sweetgapeach]

well sweet i can relate to you honey. i've done both also. and i work 2 jobs on top of it. and when i bitched at mark about it , i got well i put the roof over your head. i'll bet you i won't ever hear that again. but i'm still expected to do everything around here. i pitched a royal bitch fit, and told him to straighten up or get out. i'm not saying that that will work for you. but boy it has around here. i think it should be 50/50 you help make the mess. you help clean it up. and as far as the kids go, you layed down to have your fun, so when you get up. be a parent.



Amen !!!!

[sweetgapeach]

If she mowed the grass once I would be riddled with guilt for weeks. The kids, well there as much mine, and I bet I have spent my share of time.

You get woke up when your sick and asked whats for dinner ?????

The Sweet in Sweetgapeach does not do you justice!!! :kk


Thank You !!

[Zpanther]

Marycat said:
I was lucky that I never had to use formal childcare, no money went out for that....my mom took care of them, when I worked in the family business they went to work with me when they were not in school. Or hubby and I worked different shifts so one of us would always be there for the kids. You're lucky MC! What a good arrangement! Otherwise you get into the duel income trap that Spare made reference to.

I would have loved to be at home all the time everyday....its who I am, who I always wanted to be. Give me those babies and the station wagon. We must have an extra "mom" gene or something! I love being a mom!
I think women were made to handle 16 different tasks at one time so we could care for the family while man brought home the bacon, venison,money-whatever. It's part of our genetic makeup; women and men are wired differently. I agree with you there...
I am one of the females who does not think its a good idea for women to be in combat - working in construction - working on the road crews - building bridges- street cops - prison guards in a male prison. Women are not physically made to do those jobs. I am not saying that all females need to be behind a desk or in the kitchen either. I have run my share of wire, insulated my house, changed tires & oil etc. I did it because it needed to be done for my family. I'm the one who putters around doing all those home repairs, because I like doing it, and God knows I'm into mutual respect of the sexes, but if I'm trapped in a burning building, I want 6ft., 220lb. man coming to rescue my ass, not the 150lb. 5'8" woman (wait! that would be me!) Women and men are different! That doesn't make one sex better than the other, mind you. There are certain jobs out there that women just aren't suited for physically. Why do some women have such a problem with that? The truth of the matter is, men are stronger. A man my same height and weight will be stronger than me. You can't get around that.

I love being a woman who is a good wife, a good mother and I'm very good at my job and yes in that order. I love being a woman too, and a wife and a mom, and a fitness instructor, and I love to fix the plumbing, build a sandbox, bake cookies, and put on the boxing gloves.

Alright Jazzy..... get your cute ass back in that cave and stoke up the fire. I'm goin' out to get us some meat for dinner and when I get back.. maybe you can 'fix my plumbing.'

[bonzzz4292]

i might not always help 100% around the house, and i might not always agree with what is going on in the house. but i can say for the most part we agree on how things should not be done.

[Jy]

Holy Jumping! A man who knows how to give what he gets!!
Bring me back a big wooley mammoth to throw on the fire! I'll fix your randy ass while it's cooking!


Alright Jazzy..... get your cute ass back in that cave and stoke up the fire. I'm goin' out to get us some meat for dinner and when I get back.. maybe you can 'fix my plumbing.'

[Zpanther]

... alright. Nice and warm in here now. You look pretty hot. Take off that robe and hang some of this meat over the fire. mmmmmmmmmmmm...... now you look even hotter. :satan:

[Jy]

I'm not trying to centre you out bonzzz, but there's the word "help" again, which implies that the household chores are Sandy's responsibility and that you are doing her a favour by assisting her with them!
You're not to blame for this; it's a mindset, an established pattern in our society.


i might not always help 100% around the house, and i might not always agree with what is going on in the house. but i can say for the most part we agree on how things should not be done.

[Jy]

Okay, time to throw in my two cents.

My husband and I have one basic rule for the house, which we are passing on to our son: clean up after yourself. If everyone takes responsibility for their own mess, there's no scapegoat, no martyr, no imbalance. As far as the general chores, I tend to do most of them, although he will do something if he sees it needs doing, such a turning on the dishwasher, throwing a load of laundry in, etc.
I do most of the work because he works more hours than me. We agreed on this years ago when we decided to start a family. I work very part time hours because I enjoy my job, but am careful to not make too much money, as that would put us in a higher tax bracket and we'd actually be losing money.
It was a big adjustment for me at first, to be making so little money, as I've always prided myself on being financially independant, but it was an adjustment I was willing to make to be home to raise my son.

[Wet Beaver]

i give up...it will take me a week to read this thread.....but i will get back to ya....:kk

[bluevirgo69]

I got married in June of 2005 to a wonderful man. I actually found someone who loves me for who I am and sees all the beauty inside and outside. Before, I started going with my husband, I wasnt looking to be married to him. I was actually thinking of using him. I had been in a nasty relationship just prior to getting involved with my husband. I never thought I would fall in love with him. We have known each other for a couple of years, before we got involved with each other. There he was in the background waiting for an opportunity with me and I had different plans for him. Horrible huh? I didn't actually fall in love with him until I saw him cry. He had come to me for help and he was so sincere. I knew that I always liked him, but didn't know it would hit me as love. When we got together, all he asked of me was to stand by his side. Maybe he didn't plan on falling in love with me either. Standing by each other's side that is what we were suppose to do. I was with my then boyfriend for about a year and we decided to go farther with our relationship this past year. My role as a wife has been great!! I know that I am new at this marriage, but right now, I am not willing to trade it in. I have found my husband to be very compatable for me in all aspects. I love the way he looks at me regardless of what I happen to look like on a certain day. I feel sometimes, that I am not giving in that way like he is towards me. I do know that I do love him. When my husband comes home, I plan on showing him this site. I think we can benefit from it. I think it will be nice to meet new and interesting people that we have so much in common with.:)

[spare_change]

well sweet i can relate to you honey. i've done both also. and i work 2 jobs on top of it. and when i bitched at mark about it , i got well i put the roof over your head. i'll bet you i won't ever hear that again. but i'm still expected to do everything around here. i pitched a royal bitch fit, and told him to straighten up or get out. i'm not saying that that will work for you. but boy it has around here. i think it should be 50/50 you help make the mess. you help clean it up. and as far as the kids go, you layed down to have your fun, so when you get up. be a parent.


Why do you work two jobs? How many kids have you got at home?

[Norfolkdave]

While my wife works in the mornings I help with the chores, I come off here and vacumn, polish and dust, and decorate where needed, together we choose the colours, furniture etc. In the home if its nice I clean the outside windows, shes I admitt does my laundry, but I try to help where possible. I always say " Is there anything you want me to do"

[Jy]

Sounds like you're a big contributer to getting things done, Dave, which only reinforces my original point (and I really did have one!) that we often use the term "help" which implies that it's the wife's sole responsibility to do the chores, and when the husband pitches in, he's doing her a favour. It only requires a subtle change of mindset to realize that you are a "contributer" not a "helper"! Sounds like you and Chris have it arranged to both your liking.

That being said, will you come and wash my windows? We both detest that job!

[Norfolkdave]

Sounds like you're a big contributer to getting things done, Dave, which only reinforces my original point (and I really did have one!) that we often use the term "help" which implies that it's the wife's sole responsibility to do the chores, and when the husband pitches in, he's doing her a favour. It only requires a subtle change of mindset to realize that you are a "contributer" not a "helper"! Sounds like you and Chris have it arranged to both your liking.

That being said, will you come and wash my windows? We both detest that job!

Hello Jazzy, we get by ok, its a change to be able to help, it gives me excercise and I enjoy doing it, Passports packed on our way:wa:

[spare_change]

Sounds like you're a big contributer to getting things done, Dave, which only reinforces my original point (and I really did have one!) that we often use the term "help" which implies that it's the wife's sole responsibility to do the chores, and when the husband pitches in, he's doing her a favour. It only requires a subtle change of mindset to realize that you are a "contributer" not a "helper"! Sounds like you and Chris have it arranged to both your liking.

That being said, will you come and wash my windows? We both detest that job!

Wow! You really stumble over this word "help", don't you? Whether we call it help, or assist, or contribute, or share ---- the cause and the result are the same. You have negotiated an agreement for chores in the past, but now you want to change it? Sounds like you need to go back to the table.

[MCat]

Was it my fault--No offense meant.

No problem Sunfire.....we are always looking for an excuse to start a lively discussion:kk

[Barkiss]

When exactly did "help" become a four-letter word? ;)

[MCat]

When exactly did "help" become a four-letter word? ;)

In the early 70's....when some women decided they didn't need help or assistance, they could do it all themselves, they wanted to be equals with men, they wanted to do it all. "I can open my own door, I'll pay for my own movie and dinner, I can pump my own gas....move over let me lay that asphalt". I think a lot of women have bitten off more than they can chew and the men are thinking they don't need to be responsible heads of the family, you wanted to do it all...go for it sister.

We will never be equals, we are too different in our mental and physical makeup.


help

To give assistance to; aid: I helped her find the book. He helped me into my coat.

To contribute to the furtherance of; promote.
To give relief to: help the needy.
To ease; relieve: medication to help your cold.
To change for the better; improve: A fresh coat of paint will help a scarred old table.
To refrain from; avoid or resist. Used with can or cannot: couldn't help laughing.
To wait on, as in a store or restaurant.
v. intr.
To be of service; give assistance.n.

The act or an instance of helping.
Aid or assistance.
Relief; remedy.
One that helps: You've been a great help. A food processor is a help to the serious cook.




[Middle English helpen, from Old English helpan.]Synonyms: help, aid, assist, succor


These verbs mean to contribute to the fulfillment of a need, the furtherance of an effort, or the achievement of a purpose or end. Help and aid, the most general, are frequently interchangeable: a medication that helps (or aids) the digestion. Help, however, sometimes conveys a stronger suggestion of effectual action: I'll help you move the piano.

Assist usually implies making a secondary contribution or acting as a subordinate: Apprentices assisted the chef in preparing the banquet.
Succor refers to going to the relief of one in want, difficulty, or distress: “Mr. Harding thought... of the worn-out, aged men he had succored” (Anthony Trollope). See also synonyms at improve (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=improve)





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assistance



n 1: the activity of contributing to the fulfillment of a need or furtherance of an effort or purpose; "he gave me an assist with the housework"; "could not walk without assistance"; "rescue party went to their aid"; "offered his help in unloading" [syn: aid (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aid), assist (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=assist), help (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=help)] 2: a resource; "visual aids in teaching"; "economic assistance to depressed areas" [syn: aid (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=aid), help (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=help)]


It's blown way out of proportion just like everything else.

So now instead of the F word , we can just say the H word. :D

[IntimateStranger]

When exactly did "help" become a four-letter word? ;)

Help implies that the task at hand is not your responsibility.

"Help" becomes vulgar= (rude, offensive, improper,naughty) and therefore a 4 letter word when it crosses that line when one considers what they are doing to be of assistance to another where in reality its their resposibility.

[Barkiss]

In the early 70's....when some women decided they didn't need help or assistance, they could do it all themselves, they wanted to be equals with men, they wanted to do it all. "I can open my own door, I'll pay for my own movie and dinner, I can pump my own gas....move over let me lay that asphalt". I think a lot of women have bitten off more than they can chew and the men are thinking they don't need to be responsible heads of the family, you wanted to do it all...go for it sister.

We will never be equals, we are too different in our mental and physical makeup.

It's blown way out of proportion just like everything else.

So now instead of the F word , we can just say the H word. :D

awww..the help with you. :)

Thanks...you made my point without me being politically incorrect..:)

[Barkiss]

Help implies that the task at hand is not your responsibility.

"Help" becomes vulgar= (rude, offensive, improper,naughty) and therefore a 4 letter word when it crosses that line when one considers what they are doing to be of assistance to another where in reality its their resposibility.

My poor staff...I'm cussing them out all the time, and didn't realize it...;)

[Gman992]

Hey, I was just reading on article that more and more men are getting plastic surgery done? What the f*&K? Sinatra would never do that!!! And I don't even want to talk about all of the men that wear make-up---you know--metrosexuals...

[Jy]

Spare, I am quite satisfied with our household chores arrangement, so I'm not sure how you got the impression that I want to change them. This thread was simply initiated by an exchange of ideas that seemed diverse enough to warrent a separate thread.
So far, Intimate Stranger seems to be the only one who fully comprehends the point I was trying to make. Help isn't a bad word, only when it's original meaning (and thank you to MC for posting that) is blown out of proportion. The original meaning is quite harmless, but when "helping" one's spouse becomes some kind of "magnanimous" gesture of assisting said spouse with his/her responsibilities, it does become vulgar.
As I said before, the distribution of chores should be mutually agreed upon and should take into consideration both partners workload, personal preferences - I love cooking, so I do it- and getting the children contributing. This sounds idealistic, but I don't think it is. It's called fair.

[Barkiss]

Damn Jazzy...I don't like it when you use big words like magnanimous...makes me dizzy. ;)

Anyways, I guess I am too traditional for this thread. My wife and I have split responsibilities. I work 60-70 hours a week to financially support the family and she works 60-70 hours a week managing the house. When the two crossover, I would consider that "helping" regardless of the other's responsibility.

She has, and I am sure will continue, to come to my office and help organize things. We are a bunch of guys without much organizational skills. When she does it, I consider it a huge "help".

In the same breath, I have been known to cook dinner, vacuum, wash windows, wash clothes, etc., and she has always told me, "Thanks for the 'help'".

I will never ask my wife to "help" me negotiate a contract nor will she ever ask me to "help" her (well, there isn't anything she wouldn't ask me to "help" her with).

Bottom line is I don't want to be criticized because I might use the word "help" on a thread when referring to an action I performed around the house. I personally, and proudly, do help my wife around the house.

[sweetgapeach]

I dont care if the word used should be Help or Assist , I will take what I can get !! Either one !!

[Jy]

Spoken by a man who obviously knows the true meaning of the word "help" and also knows the value of expressing appreciation for something your wife does anyway! It's so important for us to express our gratitude to each other and not take our partners for granted. Seems like there's some of that flying around here, which is why this thread started in the first place.

I'm not criticizing you for using the word help. Just adding my two cents to the discussion.
Sounds like you and your wife have found an arrangement with works for both of you and that you both regonnize the value of each of your roles. Kudos to you both!

[sweetgapeach]

A Thank you , goes along way !!

[Barkiss]

A Thank you , goes along way !!

and a towel...can't forget the towel...:blowjob:

[sweetgapeach]

and a towel...can't forget the towel...:blowjob:



:lmao How could I have forgotten that , Baby !!

[Sandy]

well guys all i can say is this. i agree with jazzy if everybody would pick up after themselves it would make things easier, we're all trying that now. and spare as far as 2 jobs go, both are part-time. 1 i clean houses 3 days a week for a lady. 2. i watch my 3 year-old nephew so my sister can work her job. i've had him since he was a baby. he won't stay with anybody else.

[Waltert]

All I know is I did not leave anything laying around Jazzy's house!

Actually I pick up after my wife more than she picks up after me

[Jy]

It's not very often that couples have the same outlook on housework, and one person always seems to be tidier than the other. But somehow we need to find a way that works for both, otherwise it turns into a power struggle, or one martyrs themselves, which turns into resentment, or it goes to divorce court!

[sweetgapeach]

It's not very often that couples have the same outlook on housework, and one person always seems to be tidier than the other. But somehow we need to find a way that works for both, otherwise it turns into a power struggle, or one martyrs themselves, which turns into resentment, or it goes to divorce court!


Exactly !!

[italian_princess0420]

maybe i got this topic all this wrong...but some men, not all, seem to take women for granted...like "hey now there is a woman for me to do this and this and this so i dont have to do it!!"...yeah my boyfrined is great...but i have to tell him to help me w/things around the house...especially laundry...and i try to make cooking somethin we both do...but for awhile there it was just me cooking...and i got fustrated at the fact that men see women as maids...they just sit around "watching" us bust our butts cleaning..cooking and etc while they watch a game on tv..or play video games...come on guys...women shouldnt have to do everythin...and we shouldnt have to tell u what u have to do as far as cleaning goes...that brings me to an ex...the other day ryan and i came back from ohio..and our bathroom was soooooo dirty thanks to my mom and bro, well i didnt think nothin of it since we were goin to move out in a few days or so anyways...well for those of u that know me... i cant live in a messy state...i have to clean things that i see as a mess...well anyways i let the bathroom go dirty for a couple days "which by the way killed me"...well we find out we cant move out after all and so i decide to clean the bathroom, and ryan helped...well after that ryan was about to go play his game and im like "uh noo we have more cleaning to do"..i mean we have been home for 4 days now and yet to un-pack any of our clothes and clean the room which was a huge mess from packing and comming back from a trip...well i had to "tell" him what we had to clean next...gezzzz what i do around here, but if ya get him in the right mood...he kinda cleans like me...and im a clean freek...or try to be...ryan kinda gets in my way of keeping that role

[Waltert]

I do not like to sit around and watch women bust there butts

I like to watch them wiggle their butts as they work!

(No, actually in our case it works out fairly bad, both my wife and I tend to be messy, but together we keep things semi neet. But they would never hold up to a clean freeks standards.)

[Norfolkdave]

HELP provide with the means towards what is needed or sought. So we all help Jazzy to stand on her soapbox and spread the word:D without swearing of course:nu

[Zpanther]

Spare, I am quite satisfied with our household chores arrangement, so I'm not sure how you got the impression that I want to change them. This thread was simply initiated by an exchange of ideas that seemed diverse enough to warrent a separate thread.
So far, Intimate Stranger seems to be the only one who fully comprehends the point I was trying to make. Help isn't a bad word, only when it's original meaning (and thank you to MC for posting that) is blown out of proportion. The original meaning is quite harmless, but when "helping" one's spouse becomes some kind of "magnanimous" gesture of assisting said spouse with his/her responsibilities, it does become vulgar.
As I said before, the distribution of chores should be mutually agreed upon and should take into consideration both partners workload, personal preferences - I love cooking, so I do it- and getting the children contributing. This sounds idealistic, but I don't think it is. It's called fair.

Don't worrry SunFire..... It wasn't you that opened this 'can of worms.' Easy Jazzy... I get your point. This one fits in with that thread we had called 'hotbuttons.' We found one of Jazzy's....... heh heh. Sounds like you need to renegitiate.... well, what Spare said.

[sweetgaltn]

This is a tough one ! I have been a stay at home Mom , and was for 13 years . And now that I do work I feel I have two jobs !! I still have the same responsiblity as before but with added pressure.
Yes, my Hubby does work hard , but when he is at home , he looks at it as his time to rest. I look at it like this . When is it my time , where are my weekends ,when do I get to sleep in ?
He may do the dishes sometimes ,then acts like he did the most wonderful thing for me . Its crap !!
In this house , I cook ,clean,mow grass (he hasnt mowed grass prolly 6 times since the time we were married ) and take care of the kids. He has even said "Well , I watched the kids for you . I said Watched your kids for me?
I get frustrated and mad at times !! But I think since I have done it all I set myself up , to where its expected !!
I dont care if I am sick I will get woke up and asked whats for dinner , and i get up and do it !!
My Hubby tells me I have it easy, he works harder and makes more !! I think its a bunch of shit !!
If all I had to do was stay at home then I wouldnt and didnt mind doing it all ! Now when I am working it does !!

that sounds like my life except mine will mow the yard. I've been a stay at home mom for a little over 4 years and it would still be nice if he would do the dishes for me every once in awhile or help with laundry or take the trash out without me asking.

[KIRA187]

I think this could turn out to be a VERY HOT Topic if allowed to get going and just not in here!

Spouses..... beware!

[Penny]

I dont think my husband even knows how to turn the dishwasher on. But I see the way he comes home from work and can barly move some nights so taking care of the house dosnt seem like such a big deal to me. He has wrenches in his truck that are bigger than me :(

[Penny]

Great story :)

[Sandy]

great story. you just hang on to your love for each other and be there no matter what and you'll make it.

[KIRA187]

I got married in June of 2005 to a wonderful man.

I do know that I do love him. When my husband comes home, I plan on showing him this site. I think we can benefit from it. I think it will be nice to meet new and interesting people that we have so much in common with.

Very nice Blue. I hope that you and hubby both like it here.

[spare_change]

but some men, not all, seem to take women for granted...my boyfrined is great...but i have to tell him to help me w/things around the house...especially laundry...and i try to make cooking somethin we both do...we shouldnt have to tell u what u have to do as far as cleaning goes...i cant live in a messy state...i have to clean things that i see as a mess...i decide to clean the bathroom, and ryan helped...about to go play his game and im like "uh noo we have more cleaning to do"..well i had to "tell" him what we had to clean next...

Pardon me for saying so, princess, you sound like you would be tough to live with ---unless, of course, he bows and scrapes and does exactly what you TELL him, over and over, to do. Look at what your words said. Are these "lessons" accompanied by loving pats, or screaming sessions? Pretty clear who controls this house --- how does he look in an apron?

[spare_change]

This is a tough one ! I have been a stay at home Mom , and was for 13 years . And now that I do work I feel I have two jobs !! I still have the same responsiblity as before but with added pressure.
Yes, my Hubby does work hard , but when he is at home , he looks at it as his time to rest. I look at it like this . When is it my time , where are my weekends ,when do I get to sleep in ?
He may do the dishes sometimes ,then acts like he did the most wonderful thing for me . Its crap !!
In this house , I cook ,clean,mow grass (he hasnt mowed grass prolly 6 times since the time we were married ) and take care of the kids. He has even said "Well , I watched the kids for you . I said Watched your kids for me?
I get frustrated and mad at times !! But I think since I have done it all I set myself up , to where its expected !!
I dont care if I am sick I will get woke up and asked whats for dinner , and i get up and do it !!
My Hubby tells me I have it easy, he works harder and makes more !! I think its a bunch of shit !!
If all I had to do was stay at home then I wouldnt and didnt mind doing it all ! Now when I am working it does !!

Just curious, Peach -- why did you go to work after 13 years? Your idea or your husband's? Did he ask you to go back to work?

[SirFox]

maybe i got this topic all this wrong...but some men, not all, seem to take women for granted......and im a clean freek...or try to be...ryan kinda gets in my way of keeping that role

Princess. I think you had better look at the words that are "control words." Your WORLD and that of your boyfriend's are not the same. He may be the boy from down the street, but you are two DIFFERENT people probably with TWO different goals in mind. Your Boyfriend does not have the same goals and objectives as yours.
You have a tool at your disposal...and that is communication. Use it. Communication means using WORDS to communicate with your man. And your man has to communicate with you.

Women shouldn't have to do everything, I agree. But many women often want to do EVERYTHING today. Do you realise that BTW?

You had the sexual revolution of the 1970s. Women fought hard and strong for liberation from the slavery of men....they got the "same rights" as men...
now they have to assume.

[Jy]

But that was my point ZP! I'm quite happy with the arrangements my husband and I have made! I just started this thread because it was a big can of worms somewhere else, and seemed like it needed to be a thread in itself.
And so far, I'd say it's quite a lively one too!


Don't worrry SunFire..... It wasn't you that opened this 'can of worms.' Easy Jazzy... I get your point. This one fits in with that thread we had called 'hotbuttons.' We found one of Jazzy's....... heh heh. Sounds like you need to renegitiate.... well, what Spare said.

[Jy]

Well, I couldn't leave well enough alone and had to throw in my two cents again!

I know a lot of women who like to be the ones in control; the ones who run the household; the ones who make it all happen. There are many who like the idea that if they stopped doing what they do, the whole world would stop turning; they create a dynamic whereby all family members depends on them to function. The problem starts when they get tired or overwhelmed by all that they took upon themselves and want to change what''s already been established.
"What do you mean I have to do my own laundry?"
"But, Mom, you always take care of that!"
We can be our own worst enemies!
I'm not saying that any of the ladies here have displayed that attitude, but it is very common; I see it everyday. Women pride themselves on being able to say,"I just don't know what my family would do without me." Makes them feel needed; important; indispensable.
But you're not doing yourself or others any favours that way. The children never learn to be self-sufficient, and you end up feeling taken advantage of.

[Jy]

Okay, one more thing, then I promise to take this damn soapbox to another thread!

Some people are tidy, some aren't; that's the reality of it. But the problems start when one person tries to impose their standard of living on another.
I'll use you as an example if I may, Princess. You want the apartment clean, and feel it's important to unpack and tidy up before moving onto some kind of leisure activity. Ryan isn't concerned about the mess, or his luggage, and wants to play video games. What we have here is a difference of opinion and two people with different priorities. And when one person tries to impose their priorities on another, there is no winner. Relationships aren't about control or getting one's own way. They're about communication, compromise and mutual respect.

[italian_princess0420]

errr i get what u all are saying...but u know as well as i do..its fustarating somtimes

[Cotties]

I'm a bit afraid of this thread but here goes.

My standard of clean is not much higher than my dogs. If I could use paper plates I would, if I could hose the floor down I would and if I could afford a cleaner I would.

Now my wife works 6 or 7 days a week , 12 hours a day and her standard of clean has sunk lower than mine. Is she less of a women.NO..am I angry the house is dirty.NO......do I do more than her now.YES.... is this subject a problem.. Never

We have better things to fight over than current condition of the sink......

Many people over clean their house so when their spouse returns home they have something to complain about. If this is a stress relief, keeping yourself busy. FINE

But try not to use it against your partner. You chose to marry them.

[SirFox]

Okay, one more thing, then I promise to take this damn soapbox to another thread!

Some people are tidy, some aren't; that's the reality of it. But the problems start when one person tries to impose their standard of living on another.
I'll use you as an example if I may, Princess. You want the apartment clean, and feel it's important to unpack and tidy up before moving onto some kind of leisure activity. Ryan isn't concerned about the mess, or his luggage, and wants to play video games. What we have here is a difference of opinion and two people with different priorities. And when one person tries to impose their priorities on another, there is no winner. Relationships aren't about control or getting one's own way. They're about communication, compromise and mutual respect.

Excellent answers Jazz. I am most impressed and I think you deserve some flowers....for the amount of energies that you have taken to answer a sister poster here

Do you wish red roses or would that be "politically incorrect" ( I hate that notion as it stifles life)...

[SirFox]

My experience in life and with the Forum makes me wonder when Human Beings will finally realise that one of the roots of a good relationship between two people (and particularly between a man and a woman) depends upon expressing one's thoughts through ONE'S MOUTH.

Communication is much more complex that just talking however, as it involves such things as yesssss.....BODY language....and no... not the ones that most of you are thinking about (even though that should not be discounted)..and that awful word, PERCEPTION.

We start with the house chores. There are men and women who have radically opposite views of the way that a house should be kept up. There are men who have not a single idea of how to TURN ON a dishwasher (Penny) because Penny's hubbie has PROBABLY never been shown (And it's not your fualt Penny...you simply did not think of doing it!) There are men who go directly from their mother's homes to their girlfriend's and or wives and consider that their partners are there to cater to their very needs.

(What a nice place a harem is by the way...you get to be fondled and taken care of by the gentler sex all the time...)

Men are something extremely IMmature....Guess what though? Why are men like this when we are in the 21st century? Whose fault? Ladies...step right up......You who are mothers are probably raising boys.. If you do everything for them....they will expect that with their future mates as well... It is to be hoped that you will teach your young men to do to their laundry and to responsibilize themselves in this society. Whose fault? Divorce and absent fathers in families.

BTW, Ladies... you could also teach your young men to be a little less macho by the way (the future ladies of this world will be grateful to you) ... Dads need to be involved in their son's education more than ever.

Just as many men are relatively insecure in today's society and immature because they have lost their bearings in a world where women have grown up (and most men haven't)...women have evolved. Women's role have become almost predominant. Saw statistics last night in the Herald Tribune that 57% of college grads in the USA this year will be women...

It seems to me, and it is a personal opinion, that all relationships can be enhanced by CLEAR and meaningful dialogues between two people. Princess Again: you talk of being frustrated....with your boyfriend. May I suggest that you have a nice talk with your boyfriend to see what he wants in the way of house chores and other things..if you are not satisfied with his answers and he doesn't give a hoot, then hoot him....Quite sure that there are loads of men out there who are just as good...for YOU..

The basis of creating a mutually SATISFYING relationship isn't only based on good sex...or a good maid in the kitchen or a plumber at home!

(SEX is important and is a great therapy tool)

We live in a society where in many cases the woman can ELECT to have children and stay at home, or, work and have children. Women at home should understand that if they are at home and taking care of the children. A man works 40 to 60 hours a week and he comes home to screaming children? There must be some compromises made based upon discussion and listening. When women elect to work for various reasons, then there are different variables that come into the equation including the questions of monies between the couples, who does what at home, who handles the children and when, who can go out with the boys or the girls.

(Most men will always have to work while women can elect..Not fair)

Unfortunately we still have a HUGE problem in TALKING and COMMUNICATING. We miss out on so many things because we are not listening to others, because we are sure of our own opinions (and afraid that another might be correct)...

I could write a book about this.

[tiger50]

Hey guys, i share the load i do washing, and dishes, she does more of this , but then i do the outside werk.... but whatever werks for uuuuu, .
hey i am the only one that feeds the roo....

[gitfiddlejones]

I am not too concerned with traditional gender roles. I do a lot of the traditionally "female" things around the house, and i ENJOY DOING THEM. i'D BE KIND OF A BASTARD IF i DIDN'T DO MY SHARE. By the way, I hate caps-lock. This will be a recurring theme for me, as I hit it all the time on accident.


I told you I don't type very well.

Anyway, while the other little boys were busy learning sports and being little misanthropes, I was learning how to do things at my mother's side. I hung out with girls a lot. Most of the boys thought I was kinda gay, until I started stealing their girlfriends in high school. They played football, I joined the drama club. They wanted vapid cheerleader types, I LOVED the dramatic ice-queens of the drama club. Set phasers to "melt" :D

I suppose it was easier for me than most, as my whole family had a well deserved rep for being tough. It's kinda like the old saw "What does a 280 pound gorilla eat... whatever he wants".

In fact, I am about to go clean house in a few minutes... iPod at the ready, in my undies and my fur lined slippers, hounds at the ready.

GFJ

[Jy]

You have a kangaroo?! Can I feed him??



Hey guys, i share the load i do washing, and dishes, she does more of this , but then i do the outside werk.... but whatever werks for uuuuu, .
hey i am the only one that feeds the roo....

[Jy]

Thank you for sharing your story with us Blue!

[Penny]

In fact, I am about to go clean house in a few minutes... iPod at the ready, in my undies and my fur lined slippers, hounds at the ready

Need to see that lol

[sweetgapeach]

I actually found someone who loves me for who I am and sees all the beauty inside and outside.



Thats the best part !! Thanks for sharing .

[hank69]

Hey guys, i share the load i do washing, and dishes, she does more of this , but then i do the outside werk.... but whatever werks for uuuuu, .
hey i am the only one that feeds the roo....


:lf same here I help most of the time with whatever needs done. If I don't I'll get a :sp: ( I think I'll not help tommorw..he ..he..)

[Cotties]

Tigers a son of a roo shooter.......make sure you stand very still Jazzy when feeding them. You have a kangaroo?! Can I feed him??

[Jy]

One's role as a wife? I guess it varies for everyone, but for me, it's about a partnership. I'[ve never needed a sugar daddy or a knight in shining armour, just someone to share the journey with. Sharing our lives and all that it entails; good times, bad times, dishes, laundry, raising the kids, sharing the victories...

[Sandy]

well i guess i'm like sweet, i'm lucky i have someone who loves me faults and all. i can be myself with him. its always been that way with us. and when we're together i know theres nothing we can't do.

[firefly]

Aahh....a newlywed! Congratulations Blue and like mywife said, never lose sight of ya'll love.

Thank you for sharing.

[Zpanther]

Okay, one more thing, then I promise to take this damn soapbox to another thread!

What?! You're gonna move it again? :confused:

[SirFox]

maybe i got this topic all this wrong...but some men, not all, seem to take women for granted...like "hey now there is a woman for me to do this and this and this so i dont have to do it!!"...yeah my boyfrined is great...but i have to tell him to help me w/things around the house...especially laundry...and i try to make cooking somethin we both do...but for awhile there it was just me cooking...and i got fustrated

Princess: May I suggest you take some courses in mind reading if you want your man to do things that you think absolutely essential? According to you, your boyfriend should also be a CLEAN FREAK? I do not thing so. Seems to me that you both should do some serious talking and COMMUNICATING...before your relationship breaks.

I am sure that you have no problem talking with him. Do you listen to what he says and he doesn't say?

[tiger50]

You have a kangaroo?! Can I feed him??


Yeh jazz u can feed her..... if u ave a death wish...lol......

[MCat]

:lf same here I help most of the time with whatever needs done. If I don't I'll get a :sp: ( I think I'll not help tommorw..he ..he..)

Ok Hank, you're gonna get it :blowjob: oh I mean :sp:

[tiger50]

Tigers a son of a roo shooter.......make sure you stand very still Jazzy when feeding them.

You got it mate..lol... the roo makes the karate kid look like a bloody ameteur..... that roo has a BIG kick...... :D

[KIRA187]

Aahh....a newlywed! Congratulations Blue and like mywife said, never lose sight of ya'll love.

Thank you for sharing.

Ya'll?!? cant tell you are from a southern state fire! Say Hey!

[firefly]

:D Hush boy or I'll go cut a switch to use on you!

Besides ya'll is a legitimate word.....well around here it is anyhow!;)

[Barkiss]

:D Hush boy or I'll go cut a switch to use on you!

Besides ya'll is a legitimate word.....well around here it is anyhow!;)

Don't let the yanks tell you any different...

Ya'll and ain't are both acceptable...How else are we suppose to say "you all" and "am not"???

[firefly]

Don't let the yanks tell you any different...

Ya'll and ain't are both acceptable...How else are we suppose to say "you all" and "am not"???

:nu Are you implying sir, that we southerners are too lazy to say the complete phrase? ;)

[Barkiss]

:nu Are you implying sir, that we southerners are too lazy to say the complete phrase? ;)

No ma'am...I'm defending you and my homeland..

[Norfolkdave]

No ma'am...I'm defending you and my homeland..

Ya.ll be 10 steps or 20 my man!:D

[KIRA187]

Hush boy or I'll go cut a switch to use on you!



Besides ya'll is a legitimate word.....well around here it is anyhow!

Didn't mean to go disrespectin ya maam. ;-) I do like a southern type accent. Only teasing you Fire... Haven't seen ya round so just saying HI!!

Never had a switch taken to me.... could be interesting.

[firefly]

No ma'am...I'm defending you and my homeland..

:gs Good boy! :kk

[firefly]

Didn't mean to go disrespectin ya maam. ;-) I do like a southern type accent. Only teasing you Fire... Haven't seen ya round so just saying HI!!

Never had a switch taken to me.... could be interesting.

:wa: Howdy! I know you were just teasing Kira.....and even though you are a Yankee....I like you anyhow. ;)

Since you've never had a switch taken to you I promise to be gentle....well a little. :D

[KIRA187]

Howdy! I know you were just teasing Kira.....and even though you are a Yankee....I like you anyhow.

Since you've never had a switch taken to you I promise to be gentle....well a little.

Oh you dont have to be gentle. Give me what you got. I even have a pair of boxers with the southern flag and I like lynard skynard....

[Norfolkdave]

As I was born in Cincinnati, am I a yankee or a Southerner, need to know before I put my foot in it!

[firefly]

Oh you dont have to be gentle. Give me what you got. I even have a pair of boxers with the southern flag and I like lynard skynard....

Ok...remember you said that! ;)

Well then that qualifies you for honorary good ole boy status! Any man who like Skynard is ok in my book! :kk

[firefly]

As I was born in Cincinnati, am I a yankee or a Southerner, need to know before I put my foot in it!

Really? Wow Dave I never knew that, I thought you were English born and bred. Ohio isn't really on either side, but I would say you are closer to Yankee then Southern. Sorry Chap! ;) :kk

[Norfolkdave]

Really? Wow Dave I never knew that, I thought you were English born and bred. Ohio isn't really on either side, but I would say you are closer to Yankee then Southern. Sorry Chap! ;) :kk

1946 I was born in Hamilton Hospital, was brought over to the UK at the age of 3 months, been here ever since. Got 56 cousins in the states and only seen 2 when they came to England. Never renewed my passport, too late now. Would love to have seen them or kept in contact via the internet. My real father passed away 7 years ago, I dont get on with my stepfather. My mother passed away 5 years ago. I got docuements relating to Amercia, and I know my father worked at The Baldwin piano company long long ago. I keep in contact with my Aunt and Uncle but the others I only have a photo of.

[KIRA187]

As I was born in Cincinnati, am I a yankee or a Southerner, need to know before I put my foot in it!

If Cinncy is below the Mason Dixon Line then you are a southener. If it is above that line you are a yankee.

[Trev]

We have a water tower saying Ya'll. Its a fixture, everyone in the area knows where its at and if you travel the 75 north or south you must pass it to go through the area.

[KIRA187]

Ok...remember you said that!

Well then that qualifies you for honorary good ole boy status! Any man who like Skynard is ok in my book!

Sweet!! Do I get a card and preferred status too?

[firefly]

Sweet!! Do I get a card and preferred status too?

:lmao I said honorary....you have to work your way up to full fledge card carrying member! But you already have preferred status. :kk

[firefly]

We have a water tower saying Ya'll. Its a fixture, everyone in the area knows where its at and if you travel the 75 north or south you must pass it to go through the area.

:D See! If it's printed on a water tower it has to be a legitimate word!
Thank you Trev for giving it validation! :kk

[MCat]

We have a water tower saying Ya'll. Its a fixture, everyone in the area knows where its at and if you travel the 75 north or south you must pass it to go through the area.

I can just imagine that water tower....

My dads father was from Kentucky...that side of my family has a little to be desired...My dads cousin is his half brother and his aunt is his step-daddys sister.
Damn are we screwed up or what :D

[KIRA187]

See! If it's printed on a water tower it has to be a legitimate word!

Thank you Trev for giving it validation!

Alright then Firefly..... If is is on a water tower then it must be legit!!


I said honorary....you have to work your way up to full fledge card carrying member! But you already have preferred status.

Yeah Baby!!! How does one get to be a card carrying member? I never shirk hard work if it is worth working for.

[firefly]

I can just imagine that water tower....

My dads father was from Kentucky...that side of my family has a little to be desired...My dads cousin is his half brother and his aunt is his step-daddys sister.
Damn are we screwed up or what :D

:lmao Oh man....I don't even know what to say to that!

[firefly]

Alright then Firefly..... If is is on a water tower then it must be legit!!

Damn Skippy! :D


Yeah Baby!!! How does one get to be a card carrying member? I never shirk hard work if it is worth working for.

We will have to discuss that....but I have no doubt that you will rise to the occassion! ;)

[KIRA187]

Damn Skippy!


We will have to discuss that....but I have no doubt that you will rise to the occassion!

OH you know we too well!!

[sir1279]

1946 I was born in Hamilton Hospital, was brought over to the UK at the age of 3 months, been here ever since. Got 56 cousins in the states and only seen 2 when they came to England. Never renewed my passport, too late now. Would love to have seen them or kept in contact via the internet. My real father passed away 7 years ago, I dont get on with my stepfather. My mother passed away 5 years ago. I got docuements relating to Amercia, and I know my father worked at The Baldwin piano company long long ago. I keep in contact with my Aunt and Uncle but the others I only have a photo of.Dave its never to late to travel especialy to visit family....

[firefly]

OH you know we too well!!

:lf Well enough to have supreme comfidence in you and your abilities! ;)

[firefly]

Dave its never to late to travel especialy to visit family....

He's right Dave....I bet they would be thrilled to see you!

[Trev]

I can just imagine that water tower....

My dads father was from Kentucky...that side of my family has a little to be desired...My dads cousin is his half brother and his aunt is his step-daddys sister.
Damn are we screwed up or what :D

So what are you really trying to tell me? So were related, I knew someone out there must me part of the family. :lmao

[Zpanther]

:lmao Oh man....I don't even know what to say to that!

Sure you do....... but you're probably right to keep it to yourself. ;)

[Sunfiresix]

Very good story, your life can only get better.

[Norfolkdave]

Dave its never to late to travel especialy to visit family....

I know my friend but with things happening now its impossible, for a start there are complications in the passport dept, lets say I could stir up a can of worms, and to tell you all, I will one day and if advice can be given I,ll take it, but it will be a long story.

[tiger50]

I can just imagine that water tower....

My dads father was from Kentucky...that side of my family has a little to be desired...My dads cousin is his half brother and his aunt is his step-daddys sister.
Damn are we screwed up or what :D

lol sounds like Tasmania, they have the view that the family that bonks together stays together...

[Jy]

So, this thread seems to touch on some issues that another thread talked about, and that's women's roles as wives, which often -but not always- includes the roles of mother, caregiver to elderly parents, homemaker, and working outside the home.

How many hats do you wear in your home? And how to find a balance? Or are you juggling it all while standing on your tiptoes on a circus ball?

[Jy]

And men, how do you see your wife's role? Do you think she takes on too much? Wears too many hats? Does she seem happy?

[Zpanther]

And men, how do you see your wife's role? Do you think she takes on too much? Wears too many hats? Does she seem happy?

No problem there with Lady P. She knows how to say 'I've got other priorities right now, so do it yourself if you want it done.' And one of her priorities is setting time aside for herself and for us. She's willing to help out a family member or friend, but very good at not getting trapped into allowing it to be an ongoing thing. ..... same thing around here. I like meat and potatoes type food. She doesn't. So I know I need to cook it myself. that attitude can be aggravating at times, but also has it's rewards...... :sex

[Sandy]

jazzy honey, i juggle everything not just here but with my family to and work also, sometimes i have on so many hats i don't know where my head is ....lol:D

[spare_change]

Wow -- I haven't been beat up in a week or so, I think I'll answer this thread!

What do I see as the wife's role? Marriage is like a team. Each member has his or her areas of responsibility - the areas in which he/she sets the standards, determines the course of action, and enlists the assistance of the other.

The wife's first responsibility is management of the home and caring for the children. Just like in my office, she manages the home - just like in my office, this means she has to wear many hats. Just like in my office, she has to operate with limited funds. If she can figure out a way to hire somebody to do the work, fine -- if not, just like in the office, she has to do it herself. Just like in the office, she needs to figure out how to provide the needed services on limited budget. Just like in my office, she needs to prioritize the tasks, and in some cases, sacrifice the ones less important. Just like in my office, she needs to manage the personnel resources in order to get the job done. Just like in my office, failure is not an option.

Because of her availability, she must take the lead role in rearing the children. It is she that sets the standards, establishes the methodologies. That doesn't mean the man doesn't have a responsibility - it merely means that she is in charge, whether she likes it or not.

If, and only if, those can be done, and there is time left over, then her role can expand to include other areas -- a job, charity work, whatever. But, always, her first responsibility is to the family unit, just as his first responsibility is to the family unit. All other "roles" should be secondary to that.

[spare_change]

So, this thread seems to touch on some issues that another thread talked about, and that's women's roles as wives, which often -but not always- includes the roles of mother, caregiver to elderly parents, homemaker, and working outside the home.

How many hats do you wear in your home? And how to find a balance? Or are you juggling it all while standing on your tiptoes on a circus ball?

I would suggest that, in fact, you never "find a balance". In most cases, you sacrifice one thing for another.

[Jy]

Nice use of my soapbox honey. All good points actually, and very much like my husband and I run things, but I do have a question. It doesn't apply to me, as I don't work nearly as many hours as my husband, but I know many of the woman here work full time.
If both spouses are working the same number of hours, then your arrangement doesn't necessarily apply, does it? What if the wife needs to work for financial reasons, or because her benefit package is better? Lots of working moms are doing it for the money, not because they're devoted to their jobs.
In my case, we decided to downsize so that my income wouldn't be necessary, but every situation is different.


Wow -- I haven't been beat up in a week or so, I think I'll answer this thread!

What do I see as the wife's role? Marriage is like a team. Each member has his or her areas of responsibility - the areas in which he/she sets the standards, determines the course of action, and enlists the assistance of the other.

The wife's first responsibility is management of the home and caring for the children. Just like in my office, she manages the home - just like in my office, this means she has to wear many hats. Just like in my office, she has to operate with limited funds. If she can figure out a way to hire somebody to do the work, fine -- if not, just like in the office, she has to do it herself. Just like in the office, she needs to figure out how to provide the needed services on limited budget. Just like in my office, she needs to prioritize the tasks, and in some cases, sacrifice the ones less important. Just like in my office, she needs to manage the personnel resources in order to get the job done. Just like in my office, failure is not an option.

Because of her availability, she must take the lead role in rearing the children. It is she that sets the standards, establishes the methodologies. That doesn't mean the man doesn't have a responsibility - it merely means that she is in charge, whether she likes it or not.

If, and only if, those can be done, and there is time left over, then her role can expand to include other areas -- a job, charity work, whatever. But, always, her first responsibility is to the family unit, just as his first responsibility is to the family unit. All other "roles" should be secondary to that.

[spare_change]

Nice use of my soapbox honey. All good points actually, and very much like my husband and I run things, but I do have a question. It doesn't apply to me, as I don't work nearly as many hours as my husband, but I know many of the woman here work full time.
If both spouses are working the same number of hours, then your arrangement doesn't necessarily apply, does it? What if the wife needs to work for financial reasons, or because her benefit package is better? Lots of working moms are doing it for the money, not because they're devoted to their jobs.
In my case, we decided to downsize so that my income wouldn't be necessary, but every situation is different.

You have fallen into what is called the dual income trap. I haven't talked much about what I do in real life -- but it's applicable here. I am a financial strategist - not a financial advisor -- it is my job to ensure that my clients use their money in the most efficient manner in order to realize the maximum return.

Consistently, we have two-income families come to us because they can't seem to get ahead. In about 80% of the cases, we tell one of them to quit their job and stay home. That's because the cost of the second person working generally exceeds the income being generated. The salary being brought in by the second person is a myth -- you bring it in, but you pay more out for the right to earn it. Some of the costs are obvious -- child care, transportation, clothes, etc. But, most of them are hidden costs -- eating out more often because you're tired, buying ready-to-eat foods because it's easier, etc.

Now, i'm sure that we are going to hear from site members who will say that if it wasn't for the second income, they wouldn't survive. I guess it depends on how you define "survive". If driving a 2004 car vs. a 1999 car is your definition of "survive", then it's something to look at. But, if you look at it from a purely financial point of view - money out vs. money in -- dual income families are generally a money losing proposition.

But, even if you were to be in the other 20%, you need to think about what it is costing the family. What price are the kids paying? Is it really worth it?

[Jy]

Well, coming from someone who works no more than 12 hours a week outside the home, you're preaching to the choir here sweetheart. My days of working full time outside of the home came to an end the day my son was born.

I make a point of earning well below the personal basic claim for income here in Ontario, so hubby can still claim me as a dependant. It makes more sense financially, and I get to raise our son.

[Cotties]

Wow you two can be intense! intersting but intense

I earn 6 times what my wife earns. She does about double the hours minus a bit. She likes work and I like her being there. as for my finances. We will be broke until I save up and change countries. Irrelevant I know.. her role as a wife is simple. Be my better half and I will try and give her the world.

[Jy]

Intense! Absolutely! Some day I'll show you the pictures of the hotel room in Tahiti!

You sound like a devoted husband. You have a very lucky wife.
Before we our son, I worked like a dog, because I loved my job and didn't worry about what income bracket it put me in. Didn't matter then. Couples without kids have different priorities, and that's as it should be. Do what works for you. Obviously you and your wife are! Kudos to you!

[Shiane]

My Hats 1. Mom 2. Wife 3. cook 4. maid 5. Taxi 6.Tutor 7. Shopper 8. Nurse @ work 9.nurse @ home 10. community nurse & pharmacist 11. Animal control 12. answering machine 13. Hall monitor 14. decision maker, and I only get a paycheck from one of these jobs lol.
I make twice as much as my husband does, so it's not really fesible for me to stay home. Not that I wouldn't want to, and we could get by on one salary, but that ain't going to happen. I dont want to live pay check to pay check and be $350,000 in debt. I don't think there is a right or a wrong answer about dual incomes. I think you have to make the decision thats right for you and your family.

[Zpanther]

I've got the urge to get out my soapbox here, but hesitant to appear too judgemental. Oh, I guess I will anyway.

I'd like to think I'm pretty good at what I've done for a vocation most of my life and it seems to me that you are too Spare. Financial strategy is your area of expertise so I would be very hesitant to argue if I didn't agree with what you're saying. Actually no. I probably wouldn't be hesitant to argue because I like doing that, but the fact is you know a lot more than I do about that subject. But for what it's worth I do agree anyway, so... It seems to me that most of that is just common sense if people stop and think about it. Obviously a lot of people don't and that's one reason so many of them have to deal with the stress of financial insecurity.

As far as the wife's role in a relationship, I don't disagree with much if anything of what Spare has said here either. I have some hesitancy with the description of a marriage relationship as a 'team' or 'partnership' though. Each partner does have a role and the description Spare has given of a wife's role is one that I think does work. However, I don't think it works too well if it's a pure partnership........ just like in business. I don't know what the figures are, but most of the business partnerships I've seen didn't last over the long term. Two of my sons tried business parnerships and in both cases they eventually had to dissolve the partnership because of disagreement over roles, goals and objectives, business expenditures, etc.

I recognize that each partner has to have a role, there has to be a genuine interest and willingness to discuss issues as they arise, a willingness by both parties to consider the expressed ideas and concepts, needs, desires, expectations, etc. of the other, willingness to compromise, and regular communication. However, even when there's agreement on most issues, there will always be something that comes up where the issue is discussed and understood, but there is just a fundamental difference of opinion. In those instances, someone has to be the dominant partner and make the decision. If the other partner is unwilling to accept that, then problems develop and solutions are difficult. Naturally, if a decision is made and accepted by other party even though they disagree, and it the result isn't satisfactory there is a tendency for the consenting partner to say 'I told you so' and on and on.

For that reason I'm not a big fan of headless committees or groups. Group meetings are necessary and helpful if it's done right. But there should be a clear purpose for the group's existence, each member should have a specific role based on some kind of individual expertise or position of responsibility and someone has to be ultimately responsible and have authority for making a final decision on issues they are addressing. Now having said that, I recognize that it can be beneficial for a group of people to meet occasionally or even regularly for the purpose of just discussing ideas, issues, and concepts with maybe just a moderator to facilitate the discussion.... as long as it's purpose isn't to reach a decision intended to solve a problem.

I could go on with the analogy and I thought about using a sports analogy being as teamwork is part of any marriage relationship, but I guess the point I'm trying to make here is I think it's important for both partners to accept that one of them will be ultimately responsible for making a decision on issues when there is disagreement.

[Norfolkdave]

If Cinncy is below the Mason Dixon Line then you are a southener. If it is above that line you are a yankee.

The place I was born was ( on my birth certificate) Hamilton Hospital Ohio, so I have no idea where the line is that would represent anything, Im afraid I need help here. ( Im thick);)

[spare_change]

Cool !!! I was hoping somebody would argue --errr--- discuss!!!

Ladies! Gentlemen! Does a good relationship require equality? Does a good relationship require that one have the ultimate authority? If so, who's in charge at your house? Who makes the final decision, and if it's not you, how do you like that?

[Norfolkdave]

In our home we both make decisions, no one has the ultimate authority,if we did, I actually dont mind if it was my wife, but we are equal in the final decision although we play fight so to speak and squabble, the ultimate is joint. Its always " shall we, do we, ok lets do it" it gets done.

[MCat]

Cool !!! I was hoping somebody would argue --errr--- discuss!!!

Ladies! Gentlemen! Does a good relationship require equality? Does a good relationship require that one have the ultimate authority? If so, who's in charge at your house? Who makes the final decision, and if it's not you, how do you like that?

I think there is equality in somethings but not all, there can't be - men and women are too different to be totally equal. I would prefer if my spouse had the ultimate authority, made most of the major decisions, but not all. I wish we would have done that when our marriage was new, it would have been better for our marriage, our family and our finances.

[Sunfiresix]

Marycat is right, but both need to agree on most things.

[Sandy]

yes we do need to agree on things. but you also have to discuss things and listen to each other to.

[Sunfiresix]

I meant that, then you mutually can agree as long as it is beneficial for both.

[Cotties]

I force my wife to agree with me so we are equal in decision making.

[Jy]

No, as MC said, men and women are different, and both genders have their strengths and weaknesses. Regardless of who is running things though, there needs to be mutual respect. That is essential. Without it, nothing else matters.



Cool !!! I was hoping somebody would argue --errr--- discuss!!!

Ladies! Gentlemen! Does a good relationship require equality? Does a good relationship require that one have the ultimate authority? If so, who's in charge at your house? Who makes the final decision, and if it's not you, how do you like that?

[Zpanther]

I think some of this DOES depend on where you're at in life.

The roles in our relationship are now much different than they were in our early years. We had the traditional relationship where I made the money to pay the bills and she took care of things at home. She willingly worked when she could find a job that didn't interfere with her home responsibilities. We were both very busy and it was sometimes difficult to find time and energy for things like sex. Our roles in our relationship were not always comfortable, but they were defined and accepted by both of us.

The boys left the nest and I retired and began a series of extended absences. Our roles in our relationship had to change. She finally had the opportunity to utilize her education degree and find a job doing something she was interested in doing for the experience and not because of financial pressure. With me gone most of the time, she had to get accustomed to making all the routine financial decions and taking care of any family issues as well as care and continued maintenance of our home.

She now has a full time job that's demanding and she's accustomed to spending an additional 1 to 2 hours a day when she gets home maintaining physical fitness. I also have a demanding job when I'm working, but have all kinds of time when I'm home. (That's when I spend a lot of time on here). I would have never thought of doing household chores (cooking, cleaning, washing, etc.) during the early years, but I don't mind doing those things at all now when I'm home. We have extended periods without regular sex, so it's understandable that we can't get enough of that when I'm home, and there are no longer any children that demand attention or represent a distraction. We can pretty much do whatever we want whenever we want and it IS a lot of fun.

There are other changes to the traditional relationship we were accustomed to for so many years now that the circumstances have changed and those can be a significant challenge. We always seem to be able to find ways to come to a mutually satisfactory solution, but the process of accepting change can be irritating and and unsettling at times.

[Shiane]

Ladies! Gentlemen! Does a good relationship require equality? Does a good relationship require that one have the ultimate authority? If so, who's in charge at your house? Who makes the final decision, and if it's not you, how do you like that?

First of all doesn't "equality" or equal mean :sc

Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another.
Mathematics. Being the same or identical to in value.


Having the same privileges, status, or rights: equal before the law.
Being the same for all members of a group: Having the requisite qualities, such as strength or ability, for a task or situation: Adequate in extent, amount, or degree.
I have to say that I'm the major decision maker at my house, If I say no, then it's a no go. Don't get me wrong here "we" discuss everything, he asks my opinion and I in turn ask his. I'm not a dictator that says by-God we're doing it this way, I just voice my opinion, my reasoning behind my decision and not all the time but the majority of the time he agrees with me. Like buying something new, he tends to want newer, and bigger and better things. I'm like what the hell is wrong with the one we have, granted it may not be the newest one on the block but it serves our purpose and the damn thing is or almost paid for. Now if I won the lottery with oodles and millions to spare then we might be a little more frivilous with our spending. No i'm not so tight that I squeak when I walk, I'm just very practical. Granted we have spent money on things that other people would not, like paying 5,000.00 for a horse lol and yes my horse in case you're wondering. The decision on how we discipline out children falls to me, I figure if i'm going to have to be the bad guy then i'm by-God going to be the one who decides what to do. It is a joint effort to hold things together, we each have our own responsibilities. In our marriage we are equals, maybe not in every aspect but as a whole. We treat each other with respect. We try hard not to say or do things that hurt each other and the key word here is try lol Spare dont even bring up the cell phone thing:nu, I said try. We try hard to be considerate of each others wants, needs, and desires. It's give and take on both our parts. If he gives 100% and I give 100% you take that 100, divide it by 2 you get 50, and thats what makes our marriage work, its 50-50. I feel like if a marriage isn't 50-50 it isn't a partnership or a democracy, if one is a dictator and the other is a silent partner it's a Monarchy, mono meaning one and you can't have a successful marriage with one(yourself).


Now i'm going to try to crawl off this soap-box before someone pushes me off. Like I said before, I'm very opinionated, and if I have an opinion you can bet your sweet ass I'm going to give it to you. All you gentlemen out there better be thankful you aren't married to me lol.

[spare_change]

Wow!!! I was just thinking the same thing!!

What do you do when you fundamentally disagree? When he won't give an inch and neither will you? Does your opinion take precedence? Do you let it simmer until i boils over again?

Cell phone??? What cell phone? If I remember right, you lost that one!! :lmao:lmao

[Shiane]

Wow!!! I was just thinking the same thing!!

What do you do when you fundamentally disagree? When he won't give an inch and neither will you? Does your opinion take precedence? Do you let it simmer until i boils over again?

Cell phone??? What cell phone? If I remember right, you lost that one!! :lmao:lmao

Alright smartass I knew you'de have to put your two cents worth in!:55 YES gawd dammit I was WRONG about the cell phone thing and I am WOMAN enough to admit it, BUT in my defense had he jerked his head outta his ass the first time there wouldn't have been an "incident" lol!:nu

We have never came across anything that we disagreed on so strongly that neither of us would budge. It's all give and take, and so far it has worked for us. We are like a fabulous dinner and a vintage wine, we compliment each other, maybe thats why it works. (with the exclusion of cell phones):lmao

[Zifnab]

We have a form of equality in my home. We each have areas where we are more experienced than the other and so we defer to that person's judgement in such cases. Of course opinion is accepted (even when she is wrong). But it works out to our mutual advantage to let the one who knows handle it.

[Jy]

I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...


Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

[tiger50]

I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...


Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?


not goin there, i dont help coz i wudnt be doin it rite.... :D

[Cotties]

shit stirer Jaz


I pay the bills and that gives me a right to be bloody lazy. she don't like it she can leave.

Talks cheap;)
I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...


Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

[SirFox]

I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...

Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?


There are several ways to look at this including co-operating with the enemy, (if you consider your partner to be your enemy), partaking of the chores fifty-fifty...and letting her do it all.

On the one hand, it seems to me that men must remain men, and on the other hand, give a hand to our partners particulalarly if we both work. If your lady is at home and not working or tending to the kids, then there may be some imbalance there of chores.

[Zpanther]

I thought I'd dig up this thread and see what the newbies had to say...


Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsibility and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

My goodness! This is definitely a Jazzy hotbutton. Last time I 'helped' Lady P with the laundry she got pissed off that I used too much soap and the wrong setting, so I pretty much stay outta the laundry room unless she's outta town for a few days.

[Sunfiresix]

Jazzy was replying to a post I put in. I amended that one because I do really do most of the chores now that she isn't well and I was going down to take stuff out of the dryer so she could fold it, she insists on doing that. Up until her ilness everything got done by whoever got to it we had no specific duties. It always worked well for us.

[Sandy]

hey at leasy you tried z.

[G...G]

Could always use a little help with laundry!!! LOL

[Jy]

Actually, it's not a hotbutton in our house ZP. We have a pretty good arrangement. Not perfect, but we're both happy with it. I thought I'd dig it up just to hear from some of the new members to see how they split the chorse in their homes, and of they think it's a fair arrangement.

I give you credit for at least trying to do the laundry. I never look a gifthorse in the mouth, and if my husband wants to contribute, I turn a blind eye if he doesn't do it exactly the way iIwould.

My goodness! This is definitely a Jazzy hotbutton. Last time I 'helped' Lady P with the laundry she got pissed off that I used too much soap and the wrong setting, so I pretty much stay outta the laundry room unless she's outta town for a few days.

[G...G]

I agree Jazzy!! If my husband tries to help and more power to him!!! I appreciate all the help I can get!! LOL

[cuddles]

well sweet i agree with you i have never had any children ive held down 3 jobs at once and my husband held one he would always complain about being tired all the time i came home and blew up at him told him i was gonna go on strike he could cook clean for himself i want rewards that goes with being married so i said to him when you can make love to me i will cook and clean again for you but not untill then;)

[SirFox]

Actually, it's not a hotbutton in our house ZP. We have a pretty good arrangement. Not perfect, but we're both happy with it. I thought I'd dig it up just to hear from some of the new members to see how they split the chorse in their homes, and of they think it's a fair arrangement.

I give you credit for at least trying to do the laundry. I never look a gifthorse in the mouth, and if my husband wants to contribute, I turn a blind eye if he doesn't do it exactly the way iIwould.

Outhouses in many places no longer exist, however when you do a summer retreat in some places, some "people" need to take the pails of you know what out....Guess whose job that is in the first place. Men or boys!.

When there are not enough men or boye to go around, then it depends upon the arrangement.....That job will be considered a man's job by both men and women. Does that necessarily mean that one or the other gender needs to do it?

Indeed, there are women who will say that they would take the pail of excrements out to the fertilizer heap....the truth is ...ladies do not want to do it, men do it because it is a "man's job".....

There are quite a few jobs like that where men dirty their hands, women not.... So I believe that ladies can do the laundry....

I also believe that ladies ought to be thankful for their washing machines when more than 50% of the World still washes clothes in streams, rivers or public washing areas. You can stay in your slippers and do the laundry, Ladies....

In my case, as I am an eligible bachelor living at home, and alone, I am obliged to do the laundry. First marriage, she did the laundry, and second marriage, we did it fifty-fifty, and my second wife also hated to cook....
which proved disastrous for me. What a letdown.
:sc

[DazedSooner]

As this is my first post i can say this that the balance of housework, chore, or whatever you want to call it IMO depends on how physically demanding your job is.

As there are allot of days i can barely get out of my truck and get into the house. But that being said i do useally do allot of the chores around our house.

[Norfolkdave]

Hello Dazedsooner welcome to the site, I hope you find what your looking for, we are all a friendly bunch.

[Penny]

Welcome Dazed:kk



As this is my first post i can say this that the balance of housework, chore, or whatever you want to call it IMO depends on how physically demanding your job is.

As there are allot of days i can barely get out of my truck and get into the house. But that being said i do useally do allot of the chores around our house.

[Rainmaker]

Someone seemed to have opened a whole new can of worms on another thread when he said he had spent the morning "helping" his wife do the laundry. I replied by saying:

I"m just wondering why all of us use the term "help" as if it's one person's responsiblity and the other person is assisting! Don't we all dirty our clothes? Shouldn't we all be responsible for cleaning them?

Which in turn got a whole new topic started that obviously deserves its own thread. I will post the relevant replies here, then we can continue the discussion...

my hub and i use to split the housework...since i have become OCD....I do it all....Im not a neat freak...but i love a clean house...i want ppl to walk in my house and it smell like i have been baking.... i love a freshly vacuumed floor...my hub still does his share....but i end up going over what he has done....plus i got tired of our white clothes turning pink-lol...so i guess my role is....cleaning..taking care of kids..running his company.....and etc etc... his is making the money

[MCat]

Outhouses in many places no longer exist, however when you do a summer retreat in some places, some "people" need to take the pails of you know what out....Guess whose job that is in the first place. Men or boys!.

When there are not enough men or boye to go around, then it depends upon the arrangement.....That job will be considered a man's job by both men and women. Does that necessarily mean that one or the other gender needs to do it?

Indeed, there are women who will say that they would take the pail of excrements out to the fertilizer heap....the truth is ...ladies do not want to do it, men do it because it is a "man's job".....

There are quite a few jobs like that where men dirty their hands, women not.... So I believe that ladies can do the laundry....

I also believe that ladies ought to be thankful for their washing machines when more than 50% of the World still washes clothes in streams, rivers or public washing areas. You can stay in your slippers and do the laundry, Ladies....

In my case, as I am an eligible bachelor living at home, and alone, I am obliged to do the laundry. First marriage, she did the laundry, and second marriage, we did it fifty-fifty, and my second wife also hated to cook....
which proved disastrous for me. What a letdown.
:sc

Where is that damned soapbox....Fox I totally resent your remark about the slippers and the laundry...you chauvinist fox you....:nu

I must say that in the family I was brought up in, on both sides of the family, the woman did the kind of crap work you are talking about.

My Dads family was very poor in the south and did not have an indoor bathroom until 1970. My Dad finally convinced his sick mother to let him put in a bathroom. We used to visit there every summer and it was the womans job to empty the chamber pots that were used during the night....I emptied my share and we had to bleach them after. We also hauled and heated the water for the baths in the evening, that were taken in a galvanized trough on the back porch. It did have a drain in the bottom so emptying it was easy.

Granny told us we women did that work cause the men were plumb tuckered out from working all day. Well....what the hell did she think she did all day??? That woman worked harder than anyone I ever met...while her ass of a husband ( I hated that grandfather by the way) was off screwing the neighbors wife and bringing home just enough money to feed his damned coon dogs after he stopped at the bar on his way home from work.

The women in my family have always worked along side our men, in the fields, driving the tractor while the men hoisted the bales of hay onto the wagon....picking produce at local farms in the summer and fall for extra money to get us through the winter. My dad taught my sister and I how to take care of our cars...changing the oil, filters, tires etc. He also taught us how to wire, plumb and drywall a house. I don't personally wantto hold down a full time job that requires me to do that type of work...but damit, if I had to I could and there are lots of women who do.

I figure if a woman has to handle the birthing of the children, do the laundry, feed your sorry ass, pack your pissin lunch, clean the house, look good for you everyday all day and hold down a full time job whether in the field or in the corporate world...then the least you can do is empty the damn piss pot when you get home from work and put your socks in the hamper before you sit down to watch TV for the rest of night.

By the way....I totally love doing all the "womens work" piss pots and all.
I am so fortunate that my Hank is willing to handle the "mans work".

This is not aimed directly at you....I don't know you personally, maybe you are a wonderful man. It was your remark that pissed me off. Freedom of speech for both of us. No hard feelings....:kk

[SirFox]

Where is that damned soapbox....Fox I totally resent your remark about the slippers and the laundry...you chauvinist fox you....:nu ....
It was your remark that pissed me off. Freedom of speech for both of us. No hard feelings....:kk

I am VERY GLAD that there was a reaction from SOMEBODY, and that you were pissed off at something and me, that's okay. We need to get some reactions here. I may be completely off the chats and all, and not into it the depth of the M and F Forum, but the issues here need to be discussed.

Traditional roles of men and women. Definitely an issue in my book.

And yes, MC, I send you my :kk as well.

[Zifnab]

Spare said:



So, what does that have to do with dirty coffee cups? Only that couples make their own rules -- most of the men here will say that they help with the housework AND bring home the majority of the income. Which leads to the next issue -- working mothers. The National Institute of Health just released a study that showed that the average working mother makes $24,352 a year. After expenses for work and child care, and considering the increased cost of living as a result of working (eating out more, or buying convenience foods), the actual increase in spending capital per household is --- are you ready for this? --- less than $2,150 per year. That means that she earned approximately $1.10 per hour in disposable income. So, with so little return on the effort, and the documented damage done to children as result of mothers working, why do they do it? Materialism? Escapism?

So, each relationship is a negotiated settlement. He will do this, and she will do that. To try to stereotype it is impossible, and frankly, to complain here accomplishes nothing. Talk to your spouse -- negotiate your own deal.areWhich is exactly why since my wife earns more per year than me, I offered to stay home!
She said something about there not being a child around to care for.....

[spare_change]

On the way home from work tonight, I was listening to talk radio. On there, they were interviewing a lady named Darla Shine, who has written a book called Happy Housewives.

Her premise was that women who choose to stay home and care for the children are looked down upon as second class citizens -- by other women! she exalts housewifery and passes tips on how to be good at it. I searched the web and found these quotes ---

Many of us are torn between our careers and our families. We work very hard, only to have to give it all up. What choice do you have? This is really what you were meant to do. If you made the choice to get pregnant, you should make the choice to stay home with that baby if you can afford to, and I think most of you could afford to. p. 19

I think one of the biggest reasons housewives have a bad image is that a lot of moms have let themselves go. Admit it, girls. Most housewives are in desperate need of a makeover – out-of-date hairstyles, jeans that should have been thrown out years ago, and worst of all, what I really cannot handle, no makeup! p. 32

The whole mommy clique thing is stronger than ever in the suburbs. I have been really studying this phenomenon, and it’s a clear fashion thing. I notice that the cute, stylish moms hang out with other cute, stylish moms, and the frumpy moms hang out with the other frumpy moms. I told this to my girlfriend, and she told me months later that that statement alone got her off her bottom and to the gym. Now she has a slew of new girlfriends, and she’s in the A-list mommy clique – which is stupid, I know, but it’s just the way it is. So look good, don’t be a bitch, and maybe you could be the new popular mom in town. p. 164

I’ve often noticed in grocery stores that it’s the heavy women who are buying a whole lot of junk. The other day when I was grocery shopping I noticed the woman in line in front of me loading a ton of processed snacks onto the checkout counter….She was about eighty pounds overweight, and I wanted to shake her. Her son came up behind me to stand near his mother; he was about twelve years old and at least twenty pounds overweight. I was so angry that I wanted to smash my cart into her big fat ass. p. 39

The secret is that men are simple. They want only three things in life: attention, appreciation and sex. If they cannot get these three things from you, they will either look someplace else or become miserable bastards who annoy you every day of your life. p. 55.

Ladies, you may think no one out there would want your overweight, sloppy husband who leaves his underwear on the floor and pees all over the toilet bowl, but I promise you there’s another woman willing to jump into your side of the bed. p. 54

Last year one of my best friends wanted a new dining room set, but her husband was not opening his wallet. I told her to go home, pay some attention to him, act interested in him, initiate some romance, do some nasty deeds that only married couples should do, and guess what? Two weeks later she had the furniture – and a new diamond ring to boot. p. 57

So, ladies --- a serious sociological question. What do you think? Are women who choose not to pursue a career wrong or right? Do you agree with Darla Shine? Would you read her book?

By the way -- if you want to better understand her, she has a website -- www.darlashine.com. (I tried www.happyhousewives.com, and now know WAY too much about femine products and sex toys!)

[spare_change]

Damn -- another long post. I promised myself I would keep them short -- -sorry.

[spare_change]

Guys -- if you could --- let's hold our comments for a little bit. I am really interested in what the ladies have to say without our influence.

We will get our chance later.

Thanks --

[sex_kitten_4u]

in my opinion spare it is each to there own,i am a stay at home mom and still dress well and still do my make up i have a lot of friends in both catagories stated,

[Jy]

Wow! What a fascinating topic! I'm curious to see what all the ladies say as well! But can this thread survive without someone adding a smartass comment? I doubt it, but I'll hope for the best.



As a former career woman, I have been on both sides. I was a highly successful marketing/special events coordinator for a mammoth Canadian company before I got pregnant with my son, and was totally devoted to my career. I loved my job, and worked long hours at it because I loved it. I couldn't ever see myself doing otherwise, and had every intention of continuing with it once I finished my mat leave.
I didn't anticipate falling completely and totally in love with my baby to the point where my big, important job didn't mean a rat's ass to me, but that's precisely what happened. Personally, I think there's no job more important and more rewarding than raising your child, rather than paying someone else to do it. My husband and I had to make some significant changes in order to adjust to one less income, but we both think it was worth it in order for me to be home, especially while he's so young.
Yes, I do work, but no more than 16-18 hours each week, and I chose my job specifically because it does allow me to be home with him, and also gives me an outlet for my creativity. I've always been financially self-sufficient, and although my job doesn't pay the bills, it allows me to think that I still contribute on some level. There's more to my decision to work part time, but that's reason enough for now.
You've piqued my curiosity, and am going to pick up this book as soon as I can. I agree with every point you quoted from the book! Yes, heavy moms in sweatsuits and no mkae-up do gravitate to each other. I see it everyday, at the playground, the library, and so on. Yes, the friends I have with small children are similar to me in that they eat healthy, and although none of us could be considered glamour girls, we do take some pride in our appearance, and aren't hanging out at the children's museum in muumuus!
I too have stood in line at the grocery store and silently fumed at some overweight mom with overweight children, pushing a cart full of pop, cookies and sugary cereals, passing her legacy of poor eating habits and weight struggles onto the next generation. As someone devoted to helping people get healthy and take control of their health, it really pushes all my buttons.
For me, personal appearance and healthy eating habits are about self-respect, not about trying to keep up with the Jones or even trying to keep hubby interested (you all know that's not happening! But that's another thread!) I want to set an example for my son, and because I've experienced the prejudice against stay-at-home moms first-hand, I don't want to feed into the stereotype.
Wow! There's so much more I want to say on this topic, but have run out of time. I'll be back, and thanks for posting it, Spare. I do hope that the members will refrain from making silly comments for a while so we can have a good discussion.

[Sandy]

well like jazzy i've been both, i've also been a single mother, for 7 years i did it by myself, and its hard, i gave up alot but i chose to, then we got married and i worked i took a couple of years off, to help my sister raise our baby, and because i needed a break, i about worked myself to death, and like jazzy i only work part-time out of the house now. i agree with some of the points, all except about the make-up. i don't wear any because i can't but that isn't what attracted mark to me in the first place, so it really doesn't matter to me. and i'm curious myself, to see how the others respond.

[G...G]

I've also been both!!! I worked my butt off after my son was born because his dad was a piece of shit and I had to work 2 and sometimes 3 jobs to support us. After I left him and met my husband things got better. After my girls were born, he did not want me working because I had missed so much of my son's life. I felt guilty because I had never gone a day without working but it was great for a few years. I got a chance to take my kids to the park, library and go to school outings. Both of my girls have been in school for about 2 years now so I am back at work. I love having a career but I also love spending time with my children. They grow up so fast and I try not to miss anything. When I was a stay-at-home mother, I did not lay around the house. We always were doing something and the only time I never fixed my hair, makeup and so on was when I was sick. I do think there is some truth to that story because I have seen it myself but not every woman is like that.

[upstr84u]

Does not matter what anyone thinks about you --- but yourself --- if anyone has to worry about our status -- screw them // hit a nerve there --- wife has been home with the kids for 13 years - 1 income / no big home // no lexus // and kids ended up great -- would not want it any other way -- so as for my opinion take those - high maintance girls // who think they are better then stay at home moms and tell them from deep down THEY CAN GO FUCK THEMSELF!! -- sorry if i upset anyone

[sweetgapeach]

I did stay Home with everyone of my kids untill they went to school . I had just got my career started when my last child popped up, I quit and stayed home untill he went to school. It really was the best time of my life,I got to do the things that all Mom's want to do with there kids. I also felt Guilty for not working, especially if money was tight. But I think there are those that dont have a choice , thats sad. But anyone thinks it is a easy job or too good for it, thats bullshit. And being a Stay at home Mom is one of the Hardest jobs there is!

[upstr84u]

well said - sweetgapeach /// you girls from down south - are so down to earth /// you need to do like we did so no more kids would just pop up /// we installed cable TV

[sweetgapeach]

well said - sweetgapeach /// you girls from down south - are so down to earth /// you need to do like we did so no more kids would just pop up /// we installed cable TV


Lmao Thats funny !!

[Zifnab]

well said - sweetgapeach /// you girls from down south - are so down to earth /// you need to do like we did so no more kids would just pop up /// we installed cable TVsome one didn't read the third post I guess.......

[upstr84u]

Someone would be me? --- Sit back - relax // grab a beer --- you are to up tight /// heck go over in the corner if you must --- I was trying to cheer up the girls -- from this such depresing and way out of line post

[sweet]

I totally agree. Being a Stay at home mom is one of the hardest but most rewarding jobs there is. I am currently going to school and I do have a small part time job I do just for a little extra money. But, most of the time I am at home taking care of my daughters. I love doing this and I'm very happy that I get to stay with them and enjoy these first few years of their lives.

Yes, some stay at home moms do sometimes get in a "rut" and don't think too much of how they dress or the image they are presenting. This happens a lot if your children are very young and you don't get much sleep at night. You have zero energy. I know that's how I felt when my daughters were infants. But, not any more. I have realized that in order to feel more confident about myself, I had to start taking care of me. So now I eat right, excercise more, get dressed every morning and do my hair and makeup even if I'm not going anywhere.

It is a woman's choice if she wants to stay at home with her children. And no matter what she chooses to do, have a carreer or stay at home, a woman should be totally respected anyway.

[Jy]

I don't know which post was way out of line in your opinion Upstr8, but I think Zif was referring to Spare's request for feedback from the ladies on the site.

WE do appreciate your input, but as you may or may not have noticed, women are the first and the owrst ones for looking down on stay-at-home moms! I've never understood that myself, but it's true.

[Jy]

Nah, I don't wear make-up either sis. Who has time for that? But I like to think I look presentable; a balance between looking too dolled up and looking like I'm about to wash the bathtub!!well like jazzy i've been both, i've also been a single mother, for 7 years i did it by myself, and its hard, i gave up alot but i chose to, then we got married and i worked i took a couple of years off, to help my sister raise our baby, and because i needed a break, i about worked myself to death, and like jazzy i only work part-time out of the house now. i agree with some of the points, all except about the make-up. i don't wear any because i can't but that isn't what attracted mark to me in the first place, so it really doesn't matter to me. and i'm curious myself, to see how the others respond.

[sweetgapeach]

I totally agree. Being a Stay at home mom is one of the hardest but most rewarding jobs there is. I am currently going to school and I do have a small part time job I do just for a little extra money. But, most of the time I am at home taking care of my daughters. I love doing this and I'm very happy that I get to stay with them and enjoy these first few years of their lives.

Yes, some stay at home moms do sometimes get in a "rut" and don't think too much of how they dress or the image they are presenting. This happens a lot if your children are very young and you don't get much sleep at night. You have zero energy. I know that's how I felt when my daughters were infants. But, not any more. I have realized that in order to feel more confident about myself, I had to start taking care of me. So now I eat right, excercise more, get dressed every morning and do my hair and makeup even if I'm not going anywhere.

It is a woman's choice if she wants to stay at home with her children. And no matter what she chooses to do, have a carreer or stay at home, a woman should be totally respected anyway.


You are so right, Have to take care of yourself , thats the best thing anyone can do for themselves

[Shiane]

It should be a choice that you and your spouse make. I know a lot of men who work their ass off and their wife stays home, not because they decided it would be best, but she insisted so that she could take care of the kids. Some guys I know resent their wives for getting to stay home. Some guys I know prefer that their wives stay home. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, you do what makes you happy and whats best for your family. If you have job that barely pays enough for day care then you have to say hmmm maybe it's best I don't work because I'm working basically for free in order to pay someone else to keep my kids. I do not think that kids who have stay at home moms turn out any better than kids who's mothers work.

It's a choice, and I can't say whats right or wrong for you, I can only make the choice that is right and works best for me and my family.

I think it's very unfair to say that a stay at home mom is a better parent than a working mother or that a working mother deserves more respect than a stay at home mom.

I have two full time jobs (a nurse and a mother) and I do one hell of a job with both of them!

Who decides whats frumpy or cute? What the hell is frumpy? So if I'm home on my days off and I want to stroll around the house with my bed hair and sweats guess what? Thats exactly by god what i'm going to do, and if thats frumpy well hell I guess i'm frumpy. I do not get up on my days off, spend an hour on my hair and another 30 minutes on my makeup I do that on the days that I work. I work with a lot of women who come to work and look like I do on my days off lol. Thats what I call comfortable in your own skin an I applaude them for it.

When you open a magazine or turn on a tv you always see very trim, buff gorgeous women. Well wake up, the rest of the world does not look like this! We have this shit shoved down our throats day in and day out, your not beautiful unless you look like this, if you don't look like this your frumpy. I believe you gotta love and accept yourself and if you do, you are beautiful on the inside and out and it shows regardless what your hair or clothes look like.

[Wet Beaver]

It should be a choice that you and your spouse make. I know a lot of men who work their ass off and their wife stays home, not because they decided it would be best, but she insisted so that she could take care of the kids. Some guys I know resent their wives for getting to stay home. Some guys I know prefer that their wives stay home. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, you do what makes you happy and whats best for your family. If you have job that barely pays enough for day care then you have to say hmmm maybe it's best I don't work because I'm working basically for free in order to pay someone else to keep my kids. I do not think that kids who have stay at home moms turn out any better than kids who's mothers work.

It's a choice, and I can't say whats right or wrong for you, I can only make the choice that is right and works best for me and my family.

I think it's very unfair to say that a stay at home mom is a better parent than a working mother or that a working mother deserves more respect than a stay at home mom.

I have two full time jobs (a nurse and a mother) and I do one hell of a job with both of them!

Who decides whats frumpy or cute? What the hell is frumpy? So if I'm home on my days off and I want to stroll around the house with my bed hair and sweats guess what? Thats exactly by god what i'm going to do, and if thats frumpy well hell I guess i'm frumpy. I do not get up on my days off, spend an hour on my hair and another 30 minutes on my makeup I do that on the days that I work. I work with a lot of women who come to work and look like I do on my days off lol. Thats what I call comfortable in your own skin an I applaude them for it.

When you open a magazine or turn on a tv you always see very trim, buff gorgeous women. Well wake up, the rest of the world does not look like this! We have this shit shoved down our throats day in and day out, your not beautiful unless you look like this, if you don't look like this your frumpy. I believe you gotta love and accept yourself and if you do, you are beautiful on the inside and out and it shows regardless what your hair or clothes look like.

i couldn't agree more.....there are a lot of mixed messages out there...we get it from the feminist that we can do it all...then from women media that we all should look like a super model....i have 2 jobs....my most importion one is being a mother first...then the best chef that i can be.....as for make up..i only wear it when i have to...

[Shiane]

Well I can't do it all, I can only do what I can and I just hope thats good enough. If my bills are paid, and theres food on my table, I have money left over to spoil my kids, be able to afford to go and do fun things with them and not worry if i can pay the bills then thats what I'll do. Oh and don't forget about stashing some money in their college fund, I want each one to get an education. So they will be self sufficient, they will not have to depend on any man because they will be independent and able to do whatever they want.

I do have question for the girls. I have seen so many of my friends go through this and it just irritates me. I just wonder how often this has happened to any of you. Say that you are a stay at home mom, does your spouse make more decisions and expect to because you don't work? Does your spouse make you feel less worthy because you don't work? Is your input less important on financial decisions because you won't be the one making the payments? Does your spouse make you feel less that a 50/50 partner because you don't work, or don't work full time?

[sweet]

I do have question for the girls. I have seen so many of my friends go through this and it just irritates me. I just wonder how often this has happened to any of you. Say that you are a stay at home mom, does your spouse make more decisions and expect to because you don't work? Does your spouse make you feel less worthy because you don't work? Is your input less important on financial decisions because you won't be the one making the payments? Does your spouse make you feel less that a 50/50 partner because you don't work, or don't work full time?

Actually it is exactly the opposite for me. My husband expects me to keep up with all the bills, make all the financial and family decisions BECAUSE he's the one with the full time job outside of the home. He has the mentality that since he goes out and works all day that I should take care of everything else, the house, kids, and bills. I guess it's not enough that I do all that plus go to school and work a part time job. :spbx: Sorry, just releasing some pent up anger! LOL I feel much better now.

[Sandy]

mark has never done that to me, if anything he would rather i stay-at-home, but like i said i work outside but only part-time. and i pay the bills, if i want something he will try and get it. and hes surprised me a couple of times, hes seen something he knoes i would love and gets it, for me, just because, and of course the kids are spoiled rotten. :D

[Sexylady06]

I am a stay-at-home mom now, of a 10 mth old baby girl. Going from working to staying at home was a big change for me, but I love every minute of it. I do get dressed up for my husband every now and then for no reason. Now, when we go out, I do put on nice clothes, makeup, hair etc. Being a stay at home mom is the hardest job there is and people (men) forget that it is a 24/7 job, no vacations, no sick days..... and that deserves much respect!! I am currently in the process of job hunting, because it is time for me to get back out into the workforce. Personally, I can't see myself being a stay at home mom until school age but my hat goes off to the women that have.:55

[sweetgapeach]

Actually it is exactly the opposite for me. My husband expects me to keep up with all the bills, make all the financial and family decisions BECAUSE he's the one with the full time job outside of the home. He has the mentality that since he goes out and works all day that I should take care of everything else, the house, kids, and bills. I guess it's not enough that I do all that plus go to school and work a part time job. :spbx: Sorry, just releasing some pent up anger! LOL I feel much better now.


I went through that when I stayed home , and now that I work . I handle everything still !!!

[lovemakenman]

Not germane.

[G...G]

Deleted in error.

[lovemakenman]

Hello nobody wanting to flirt now

[lovemakenman]

everybody is gone
come on

[lovemakenman]

Great and you

[lovemakenman]

were is every body

[Annie]

Hello sounds like I have to post 150 of these so here it goes I am goin g to try and get it done tonight

Impressive! That might be a new record!

[Annie]

were is every body

Not sure about the others... but I'm headed for some sleep! If you don't get your 150 in tonight... there's always tomorrow night!

[lovemakenman]

Yes you will have to help me out to. one stroke at a time right

[spare_change]

Ladies -- thank you one and all!! Most informative, and frankly, most surprising.

I am breaking this down into two posts, because I want to discuss two separate issues.

I am stunned that there is "discrimination" against women who choose to stay at home and raise children. I guess that's because I think that child raising is woman's greatest calling, and something I would have thought all women strived for. But yet, I read your posts, and I get a sense that some of you believe that, and some of you don't.

Even among yourselves, there seems to be those who don't think staying at home and caring for a family and being supportive to the "traditional" male/female roles is fulfilling or worthwhile. Is that true?

I also got a hint that some of you want the man to be in charge, and some of you want to be in charge yourselves. There were comments about the husband coming home from work, plopping down on the couch, and leaving everything else to his wife. Conversely, there were suggestions that the woman insisted that either she be in charge, or at the very least, have equal say in decisions.

Again, I thank you for an intelligent discussion of the issue -- it has been most enlightening and educational. I suspect most of the guys were somewhat surprised by some of the comments.

And, to the guys -- thanks for withholding comment. It was nice to get it straight from the source.

[spare_change]

I said there were two parts -- welcome to part 2.

Ms Shine's interview intrigued me in two areas -- the in-fighting and clashes between women, and her thoughts on men and how to handle them. I think Ms Shine truly captured the essense of men -- her comment " The secret is that men are simple. They want only three things in life: attention, appreciation and sex. If they cannot get these three things from you, they will either look someplace else or become miserable bastards who annoy you every day of your life." is so absolutely right on the mark it was amazing (or at least, about this man). It is no more complex than that.

We want you to acknowledge our contributions, no matter how trivial they are. We want to know that our efforts are noticed, and that even if we aren't successful, that trying counts. When is the last time you hugged your husband and told him you are really glad that he changed the oil, or is making 4.50 an hour, or cut the grass, or whatever?

We want to be appreciated for what we do - we want our lady to think that we make the sun rise and set. That's why most guys will "taint" the truth a little about their accomplishments - the story is always better than the facts. They want to be held in higher regard in their lady love's eyes.

And sex? Someone once said that men give love to get sex, and women give sex to get love. I think that is true -- (If I have to say I love you to get laid, I will. And, if you are willing to give it up in order to hear that I love you, you will.) Sex is the ultimate nakedness -- a naked body, a naked psyche, and a naked heart --- stripping bare (both figuratively and literally) and asking you to accept us as we really and truly are. We are putting it out there, showing you all our flaws, taking a chance. We expect that our lady will make the same gesture -- put it all out there, surrender herself, expose herself.

Do you use sex as a tool to convince your husband to do something? Or, is it a gift you offer him? How do you manage your husband?

Ok -- enough pontificating. Thanks again for your discussion -- I am a much wiser man for having listened to you ladies (just like you always told me I would be).

[MCat]

You all already know what I think about this subject but here is my reply...

I have always wanted to be a wife, mother and school teacher. If we could have afforded it I think Hank would have totally approved my being a stay at home mom. To me having babies and taking care of my husband were the most important things I could ever do. Never did become a teacher. I have always worked in healthcare which is a very enjoyable and satisfying profession.

Life did not work out so I could stay at home. In our 30 years of marriage there were only 2 years that I did not work at all. We were lucky to have my mom or relatives babysit so paying daycare was not an issue. I have never thought less or more of women who stay home or have careers. The important thing is that the children are cared for properly and loved.

I was taught that men were pretty much useless in the care giving department. When I met Hank he had 2 small kids from his first marriage and I saw how he was with them. I knew I wanted him to be the father of my babies. Hank has been a great father, taking excellent care of our children when they were small.

I wish now I would have let Hank be the total head of the household or at least let him in on some of the decisions I thought I should make on my own. I think the decisions I make are emotional and quick - his are logical and well thought out. We both made some bad choices that affected our family, our life in a not so good way. We are on the right road now and can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Husbands and wives should be partners in raising a family, paying the bills, making plans for the future. Hank has always pitched in and helped me with whatever needed to be done and he knows I appreciate everything. I guess I never really thought I should praise him for doing these things. I didn't expect praise when I did the same things....it just needed to be done. Excessive praise ends up sounding insincere. It should be reserved and used wisely.

I do not use sex as a tool against my husband. I don't think I have said no very many times to his requests for nookie....Oh there was that one time, I had just given birth, made a birthday cake and dinner for 10. I was tired.

He knows I think the sun rises and sets on his love and desire for me.

[Shiane]

You all already know what I think about this subject but here is my reply...

I have always wanted to be a wife, mother and school teacher. If we could have afforded it I think Hank would have totally approved my being a stay at home mom. To me having babies and taking care of my husband were the most important things I could ever do. Never did become a teacher. I have always worked in healthcare which is a very enjoyable and satisfying profession.

Life did not work out so I could stay at home. In our 30 years of marriage there were only 2 years that I did not work at all. We were lucky to have my mom or relatives babysit so paying daycare was not an issue. I have never thought less or more of women who stay home or have careers. The important thing is that the children are cared for properly and loved.

I was taught that men were pretty much useless in the care giving department. When I met Hank he had 2 small kids from his first marriage and I saw how he was with them. I knew I wanted him to be the father of my babies. Hank has been a great father, taking excellent care of our children when they were small.

I wish now I would have let Hank be the total head of the household or at least let him in on some of the decisions I thought I should make on my own. I think the decisions I make are emotional and quick - his are logical and well thought out. We both made some bad choices that affected our family, our life in a not so good way. We are on the right road now and can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Husbands and wives should be partners in raising a family, paying the bills, making plans for the future. Hank has always pitched in and helped me with whatever needed to be done and he knows I appreciate everything. I guess I never really thought I should praise him for doing these things. I didn't expect praise when I did the same things....it just needed to be done. Excessive praise ends up sounding insincere. It should be reserved and used wisely.

I do not use sex as a tool against my husband. I don't think I have said no very many times to his requests for nookie....Oh there was that one time, I had just given birth, made a birthday cake and dinner for 10. I was tired.

He knows I think the sun rises and sets on his love and desire for me.

MCat I think you are one hell of a lady, I bet when Hank reads this he will have a great big smile:kk

[Sandy]

well spare like i said i took time off, andmaybe its here where we live, but i got alot of dirty looks when i said i was a stay at home mom, they were like oh thats all you do. i was like have you ever tried it ? the second part yes i tell mark thank you for what he does. have i ever withheld sex from him no. but woman would like to be shown apperication to for all the things we do.

[Norfolkdave]

Heh heh heh can i come into the happy housewive brigade now Im doing some chores, I have my pinny and brooms available and fag in the mouth coughing and spluttering,

[sex_kitten_4u]

Heh heh heh can i come into the happy housewive brigade now Im doing some chores, I have my pinny and brooms available and fag in the mouth coughing and spluttering,

nope dave you just an amature , maybe after 10 yrs or so :lmao mind you boil the bread and fry the lettuce and remember and polish the cooker :D

[Shiane]

Ladies -- thank you one and all!! Most informative, and frankly, most surprising.

I am stunned that there is "discrimination" against women who choose to stay at home and raise children. I guess that's because I think that child raising is woman's greatest calling, and something I would have thought all women strived for. But yet, I read your posts, and I get a sense that some of you believe that, and some of you don't. Women, regardless of whether or not they work, still have one priority and that is to raise their children, whether you stay at home or work. I have seen women who stay at home, and never have a job for say 10-15 yrs end up divorced and have no way to make a decent living. They struggle working 2-3 low paying jobs just to make ends meet. Or they stay in a crappy marriage because they know they can't make it on their own. I've worked with women who are in their 40's and 50's just entering the work force not because they wanted to but because they were forced to. Everyone of them wishes they had done things differently. When I was first married I realized one day that if I ever got divorced I would be in a world of hurt financially, so I went to college, lol still paying off my student loans too by the way. The point is if I'm not happily married I can get out any time I want to and won't have to worry about making ends meet or finding a sugar daddy to provide for me. I can and have made it on my own had I not gotten a degree things would have turned out a lot different for me. I dated a guy once who told me I was too independent lol he's the type who would prefer to keep his woman barefoot and pregnant. I don't think I discriminate against stay at home moms, I still think it's a choice, just not the one I made.

Even among yourselves, there seems to be those who don't think staying at home and caring for a family and being supportive to the "traditional" male/female roles is fulfilling or worthwhile. Is that true? What is traditional these days? Back in the day of "The Cleavers" traditional meant the man was the money maker, and the woman was the home maker, although some families still do this. Times have changed a great deal. These days you see a lot more divorce, single mom's and dad's working and raising kids, or a family where both of the parents work. I don't see many families like the the Cleavers anymore, if you look at the other ladies posts, most of them have worked a little or a lot, and at certain times stayed home with the children. In today's world I see families struggling to make ends meet, living paycheck to paycheck while trying to raise kids. Has tradition changed?? Don't we all still work and want the best for our families? In that aspect it has not changed. I think family situations have changed, vehicles didn't cost 25-75K, the average house didn't cost 100-250K. Gas wasn't 2.50 a gallon, and people did not use credit cards. People stayed home more, most were very conservative, you didn't see your neighbor's car being reposessed or people filing bankrupcy left and right. As parent we all want our kids to do better than we did, and we are all trying to do better than our parents did. So once again I ask has tradition changed, or has tradition changed us?

I also got a hint that some of you want the man to be in charge, and some of you want to be in charge yourselves. There were comments about the husband coming home from work, plopping down on the couch, and leaving everything else to his wife. Conversely, there were suggestions that the woman insisted that either she be in charge, or at the very least, have equal say in decisions. For my house we make the decisions together for the most part, thats just how it is. I don't insist on being in charge but it seems I am most of the time. I personally wouldn't let another person make the decsions that affected me, thats like driving with a blindfold on and hoping for the best.

Again, I thank you for an intelligent discussion of the issue -- it has been most enlightening and educational. I suspect most of the guys were somewhat surprised by some of the comments.

:wa:

[lovemakenman]

All work and no play is noway for me unless work is play

[spare_change]

So --- we have established that there is prejudice against women who stay at home --- is it perceived superiority or jealousy that causes it?

[Sandy]

i don't know spare, have really never thought about it, to tell you the truth. i just know that its there.

[spare_change]

Shiane -- thanks for your comments. I truly appreciate your honesty and forthrightness (which, I suspect, others have commented on before -- lol)

But, I do have a couple questions about some of the things you said.
I have seen women who stay at home, and never have a job for say 10-15 yrs end up divorced and have no way to make a decent living. So, your basic premise is that the primary reason a woman should work is to protect herself in case her husband leaves her. Do I have that right? If you had a daughter, would you counsel her to work and not stay home with the children?

These days you see a lot more divorced, single mom's and dad's working and raising kids, or a family where both of the parents work. Do you think that the fact that we have abandoned the “traditional” roles contributes to increased divorces and single mom’s and dad’s?

I think family situations have changed, vehicles didn't cost 25-75K, the average house didn't cost 100-250K. Gas wasn't 2.50 a gallon, and people did not use credit cards.

As an economist, I know that the ONLY reason the average vehicle costs $30,000 is because you (the consumer) are willing to pay $30,000 for the average car. If you weren’t willing to pay that, then the car wouldn’t sell, and they wouldn’t build it. So, you have the option of buying a $25K car or a $75K car, or even a $1500 car. Are we sacrificing quality time for quality “stuff”?

I don't insist on being in charge but it seems I am most of the time. I personally wouldn't let another person make the decisions that affected me, that’s like driving with a blindfold on and hoping for the best.

You don’t insist on being in charge, but you won’t let another person make decisions that affect you – isn’t that the same as insisting that you be in charge?

[lovemakenman]

Hey everybody

[Cotties]

Your fine upstr.


you did wait a while to post, Spare made a request not a demand...
and you said no SMARTASS comment
Someone would be me? --- Sit back - relax // grab a beer --- you are to up tight /// heck go over in the corner if you must --- I was trying to cheer up the girls -- from this such depresing and way out of line post

[Rainmaker]

I stay home fulltime with my kids now i wont lie and say i dont miss working some.But i am not able to work in my field anymore. i homeschool my boys, I run the household, i run my hubs company, i take excellent care of myself. im the typical soccer mom. i volunteer for everything.. i do get sterotyped..but its usually not for me being a housewife but for my faith.. as my son and i say all the time......Its all good!!!LOL

[Shiane]

Shiane -- thanks for your comments. I truly appreciate your honesty and forthrightness (which, I suspect, others have commented on before -- lol)

But, I do have a couple questions about some of the things you said.
I have seen women who stay at home, and never have a job for say 10-15 yrs end up divorced and have no way to make a decent living. So, your basic premise is that the primary reason a woman should work is to protect herself in case her husband leaves her. Do I have that right? If you had a daughter, would you counsel her to work and not stay home with the children? No a woman shouldn't work just because someday she and her husband "might" split up. Women should work because they choose to. Why they do it would be for obvious reasons like financially supporting their family. I've known a lot of women who stay with a man only because they have no way to support themselves, some of these relationships were abusive. I just believe a person (man or woman) should have a back up plan, you never know what life is going to give you. Always be prepared!
As far as my kids, I've told them first you get an education then if you find the right man settle down. Face it, it's very hard to have a family and then decide you want to get an education. I don't want them to find themselves in a situation like this. Life is full of what if's, whos to say the spouse in a freak accident becomes disabled and the wife is left to support the family. Life is too uncertain to leave to chance!

These days you see a lot more divorced, single mom's and dad's working and raising kids, or a family where both of the parents work. Do you think that the fact that we have abandoned the “traditional” roles contributes to increased divorces and single mom’s and dad’s? Do I look like Dr Phil? lol

I think family situations have changed, vehicles didn't cost 25-75K, the average house didn't cost 100-250K. Gas wasn't 2.50 a gallon, and people did not use credit cards.
As an economist, I know that the ONLY reason the average vehicle costs $30,000 is because you (the consumer) are willing to pay $30,000 for the average car. If you weren’t willing to pay that, then the car wouldn’t sell, and they wouldn’t build it. So, you have the option of buying a $25K car or a $75K car, or even a $1500 car. Are we sacrificing quality time for quality “stuff”? I definately think so! It's too easy to get caught up in the debt trap and lose sight of the important things. I don't work so that I can have a new 30K car every year, I do it to provide financial stability for my family.


I don't insist on being in charge but it seems I am most of the time. I personally wouldn't let another person make the decisions that affected me, that’s like driving with a blindfold on and hoping for the best.
You don’t insist on being in charge, but you won’t let another person make decisions that affect you – isn’t that the same as insisting that you be in charge? Some people are more passive than agressive, you don't have to guess which one I am. I won't be lead blindy into any situation. Does that mean I insist on being in charge, hmmmm maybe, maybe not. Maybe it just means that if my life gets turned upside down I can't blame anyone but myself.

[Sandy]

you know girlfriend you are so right.

[Shiane]

Thank You:kk

[lovemakenman]

hOW CAB YOU BE HAPPY AS JUST A HOUSE WIFE. YOu are so much more than just a house wife!

[sweetgapeach]

Some people are more passive than agressive, you don't have to guess which one I am. I won't be lead blindy into any situation. Does that mean I insist on being in charge, hmmmm maybe, maybe not. Maybe it just means that if my life gets turned upside down I can't blame anyone but myself.


Amen Girlfriend !!!!!!!!:)

[lovemakenman]

Amen Girlfriend !!!!!!!!:)

That is true to all people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:kk

[spare_change]

Some people are more passive than agressive, you don't have to guess which one I am. I won't be lead blindy into any situation. Does that mean I insist on being in charge, hmmmm maybe, maybe not. Maybe it just means that if my life gets turned upside down I can't blame anyone but myself.


Anybody ever told you that you are a sweetheart??? Thanks!!

BTW --- can I have a piece??


(of the pizza in your avatar, silly!)

[Shiane]

Anybody ever told you that you are a sweetheart??? Thanks!! Awwwwwwww you just did darlin and Thank You:kk

BTW --- can I have a piece?? Uh huh, in fact I just ordered a big juicy one with lots of sauce and plenty of meat;)


(of the pizza in your avatar, silly!) Grins, now why would I think otherwise! :na

[lovemakenman]

Anybody ever told you that you are a sweetheart??? Thanks!! Awwwwwwww you just did darlin and Thank You:kk

BTW --- can I have a piece?? Uh huh, in fact I just ordered a big juicy one with lots of sauce and plenty of meat;)


(of the pizza in your avatar, silly!) Grins, now why would I think otherwise! :na

That sure is a good lookin piece of pie. I would lkike to have some of that with beer:D

[Shiane]

[QUOTE=Shiane]

That sure is a good lookin piece of pie. I would lkike to have some of that with beer:D

Help yourself, I don't see anyones name on it and the beer's in the cooler.

[lovemakenman]

Well I will be right down there and we can share that pie!!!LOL

[lovemakenman]

[QUOTE=lovemakenman]

Help yourself, I don't see anyones name on it and the beer's in the cooler.
did you get that last one
I said I would be right down to share that pie with you and a beer:kk

[Shiane]

:D lol ya like pie ey?

[Zifnab]

So does this mean the thread is now open for meaningless banter??? Is all the serious stuff over??? If so then I guess I should sit down and compose my thoughts on all this that I have refrained from posting.......

[Annie]

in my house this is an oxymoron!

[cuddles]

well this is a very good subject my hat goes off to all women that have choosen to stay at home and care for they family but my hat goes off to all the men out there that goes out and bust his butt to care for his family also i feel sometimes that i would love to have a child but i cant so that leaves me out does not mean that im less of a woman but i do wish i had a man that could stand up and take charge every once in awhile :D

[Jy]

No, Zif, I don't think ALL the serious stuff is over.

For instance, I'm going to ask LMman for clarification about this post that he made.
Hey LMman, what did you mean by this? Can you please explain it to me? Thanks.


hOW CAB YOU BE HAPPY AS JUST A HOUSE WIFE. YOu are so much more than just a house wife!

[Zifnab]

No, Zif, I don't think ALL the serious stuff is over.

For instance, I'm going to ask LMman for clarification about this post that he made.
Hey LMman, what did you mean by this? Can you please explain it to me? Thanks.OK Just let me know when it goes open.... I want to get in a few of my thoughts in, but want to hide them so people don't start to think I can be serious...

[lovemakenman]

No, Zif, I don't think ALL the serious stuff is over.

For instance, I'm going to ask LMman for clarification about this post that he made.
Hey LMman, what did you mean by this? Can you please explain it to me? Thanks.

Sorry It should say CAN be happy as just a house wife

[Jy]

Uh, I understood the typo. I was wondering what you meant by the question itself.Sorry It should say CAN be happy as just a house wife

[Zifnab]

Sorry It should say CAN be happy as just a house wifehmmmm think he phrasing could use a little more polishing, but just my opinion....

[lovemakenman]

Uh, I understood the typo. I was wondering what you meant by the question itself.

Well II sent you a private letter. does that help you out?

[Annie]

No, Zif, I don't think ALL the serious stuff is over.

For instance, I'm going to ask LMman for clarification about this post that he made.
Hey LMman, what did you mean by this? Can you please explain it to me? Thanks.

Uh Oh she caught that! Good luck Love!



... Jazzy go easy on him... our country still needs him!

[Jy]

Sure, but I was just wondering what prompted the post initially.



Well II sent you a private letter. does that help you out?

[lovemakenman]

Ok I feel that women are way more than just a HOUSEWIFE. Men do not give them credit. I to am guilty. they take care of way more than just cleaning house and making dinner. They are the soul mate of the male. They provide the inside to what some men just cant see and will not see.

Am I making any since at all?

[Sandy]

yes you are and thank you that was nice. :wa:

[Jy]

Yes, you are making sense, but who were you responding to in the first place?



Ok I feel that women are way more than just a HOUSEWIFE. Men do not give them credit. I to am guilty. they take care of way more than just cleaning house and making dinner. They are the soul mate of the male. They provide the inside to what some men just cant see and will not see.

Am I making any since at all?

[Annie]

Ok I feel that women are way more than just a HOUSEWIFE. Men do not give them credit. I to am guilty. they take care of way more than just cleaning house and making dinner. They are the soul mate of the male. They provide the inside to what some men just cant see and will not see.

Am I making any since at all?

Good save sweetie!

[lovemakenman]

Sure, but I was just wondering what prompted the post initially.
I want to say that heading HAPPY HOUSEWIVES. It sounds all fine but want you to know that you meaning (female) gender no matter what there sexual preference is. Are Just way more than just happy housewives. Our military has great female leaders now and they are more than happy houes wife.
I did not mean to affend you if I did. female will always mean more to me than that>

[lovemakenman]

Good save sweetie!

I dont think there was anything to save dear. the facts are facts Females are more than just HAPPY HOUSE WIVES

[Annie]

I want to say that heading HAPPY HOUSEWIVES. It sounds all fine but want you to know that you meaning (female) gender no matter what there sexual preference is. Are Just way more than just happy housewives. Our military has great female leaders now and they are more than happy houes wife.
I did not mean to affend you if I did. female will always mean more to me than that>

Yes and military wives are a breed all their own! No one but another military wife can even begin to understand what they go through!

[Jy]

Trust me, it takes alot more than that to offend me.



I want to say that heading HAPPY HOUSEWIVES. It sounds all fine but want you to know that you meaning (female) gender no matter what there sexual preference is. Are Just way more than just happy housewives. Our military has great female leaders now and they are more than happy houes wife.
I did not mean to affend you if I did. female will always mean more to me than that>

[lovemakenman]

To the Title of the thread to anybody who wants to talk about it. I did stir your intreset. Didnt I?

[sweet]

When my husband decides to come home early from work because he's got a migraine headache, then expects me to baby him. But when I have a migraine, I still have to take care of my kids, cook, clean, etc. Grrrrr!!!!:spbx:

[spare_change]

When my husband decides to come home early from work because he's got a migraine headache, then expects me to baby him. But when I have a migraine, I still have to take care of my kids, cook, clean, etc. Grrrrr!!!!:spbx:


Gee, Sweet -- you really resent having to take care of him? Or, you resent that he expects more than he gives?

[Sandy]

what else is new sweet ? we can be sick as a dog and still have to do , but they get the sniffles and we're suppose to take care of them.

[spare_change]

what else is new sweet ? we can be sick as a dog and still have to do , but they get the sniffles and we're suppose to take care of them.

Ok -- same question for you -- do you resent having to care for him, or are you complaining because he won't take care of you?